Vibration in front-end

[asshanson]

First off, the car is a 96 Talon AWD. Some history: when I was in Ames this past weekend something happened to the front passenger rim and the tire lost all its air Saturday night. Checked it out and found there was a hairline crack in the rim, opposite side of the spokes, so I got that re-sealed with some rubber stuff at a local shop just to get back to Minneapolis where I could replace the rim. Not sure how long this crack has been there, didn't hit any potholes to make it crack, maybe a bump knocked the tire seal loose and the crack has been there for months, no idea.

Everything was fine until half way home, when I started getting a lot of vibration in the front end whenever I'd be on the gas (vibration instantly stopped when coasting in gear). This made me think it just wasn't a balance issue with the wheel, something else had to be causing it. Temp guage was fine, oil was a little low so I put a quart in, and re-tightened the lug nuts on the wheel just in case, and tire was still holding at ~35 psi, no leaks.

However this didn't fix anything, so I continued on like this with the vibrations, they would come and go every few minutes off and on until we got back to the city. Then, when driving in the city, things started to get worse, vibrations would get more intense, and when coasting, instead of getting better, it felt like the entire wheel was going to vibrate off, the vibrating reduced dramatically with some gas, so now I had the opposite problem, again making me think it's more than just an issue with the tire (still at ~35 psi when I got home).

Finally I get back downtown, but the vibration issues are completely gone, I'm assuming because I didn't get over 30mph. However, when I braked to a stop, it felt like the front wheels lurched, I can't explain it that well. I heard a sound each time I stopped, and it almost felt like something came loose each time. I'm going to jack it up tomorrow and take a look underneath to see if anything obvious is broken, and if not switch to my winter tires to see if the problems persist. In the meantime, any suggestions on what could be causing the various problems???

Thanks,
Andrew

[scheides]

Check for a bad wheel bearing, and when you get it jacked up check all of your various bushings on the supension; control arm specifically.

[A//// Guy]

Im guessing the rubber stuff they sealed the wheel/tire with maybe the cause? Take the wheel that has the problem off, replace it with one of your winter tire/wheels, and see if the problem persists. Its odd because the problems come and go and while coasting seem to disappear and reappear?

Sounds like a balance issue and maybe the rubber stuff they sealed the rim with is liquid and messed up balance in the rim as it was drying? Start with replacing that wheel and if it goes away thats the cause.

[xveganxcowboyx]

I can't imagine they put enough sealer in there to make a big difference. I've done it before with fix a flay, but it took 2 cans and was only noticeable at highway speeds (when the speed of the wheel really made the weight lurch).

I'm going to go with scheides. Jack it up and wiggle the wheels, tie rods, control arm, etc... Look for anything with play.

[asshanson]

yea I thought it was a balance issue too, and the rubber stuff was liquid, but there were no issues until half way. They sealed the tire 4 hours before that.

I'll check suspension stuff tomorrow.

[Matt D.]

It doesn't take much to put a wheel out of balance. If I remember correctly the weights used on wheels are .25 or .50 ounce increments.

[asshanson]

Today I swapped the front passenger wheel/tire for my winter one, it looked to be nearly identical size. While swapping I took a look at the control arm, tried to wiggle the tire, but everything looked and felt fine.

I took off the driver tire because I knew there had to be something else going on by the weird things happening at at low speed braking, and it was instantly obvious. One of the axle boots was sliced open. I absolutely hate those boots, it's the third one that's gone bad in 3 years now (the first two were sliced open on the passenger side because a shop installed them wrong, and it was the boot right next to the wheel. This time it was on the driver side, and it was a boot further in, I'm not exactly sure what to call it?).

So the question is, can this be replaced and re-filled with grease, or do I have to buy a new axle? Mitsu replaced this thing a little less than 3 years ago, probably 30k miles or so.

Thanks,
Andrew

[A//// Guy]

The axles are rebuildable but its way more cost/time then it would be just buying a whole new one that is already rebuild from places like napa or checker.

Typically if the boot is sliced open and the bearings are sht then it makes a horrible grinding noise at low turning speed, not at highway speeds. Thats the odd part... It could be the bad cv joints and I would fix them anyway but seems like it could be something else.

When you had the boots replaced, you didnt get the kind that just slides over the axle without taking it off the car did you? Those are junk.. You have to get the solid boots that only can be installed with the axle out of the car.

Did you try driving on the winter tires?

[asshanson]

Haven't tried driving yet. The boot on the passenger side was replaced like 3 years ago, they messed up and put too long of a bolt somewhere and it sliced the boot, so they replaced everything. This is a totally separate issue, I was just stating how I hate these boots.

Maybe something else is broken along with the axle... because there were more problems than just balance. Like the weird clunking sound when coming to a full stop, maybe this axle issue could have caused it all if it's broken.

[Halon]

My car used to have a shake to it only when accelerating, and at higher speeds. Chrome Puff may even remember feeling it when I gave him a ride by Applebee's. Driving around town it wasn't noticable. Coasting on the freeway wasn't noticable. Only during acceleration at highway speeds.

That went away once I pumped my driveshaft carrier bearings with urethane caulking.

[scheides]

Just replace the axle, its not that expensive and not that much work.

[asshanson]

Drove it half a block out of my parking lot to the stop light, and when I was stopping it clunked and it felt like the front driver tire moved a little sideways, then about a tire rotation later it clunked again when i was completely stopped. Guess I'll replace the axle and hope nothing else is wrong. Sort of hard to see things with a stock jack and cars on both sides.

[dragonforce]

worn out cv joint will make clicking sound when taking corners. i doubt it shakes the front end.

[asshanson]

The wheels were straight forward when the clunking sounds happened, not the usual CV problems, and only when stopping.

[FattyBoomBatty]

Did it happen right when you came to a stop or after you had completely stopped? because a clunk when stationary is strange and mystical, but when coming to a stop that could be a really bad bearing, maybe you have a blown shock or the bolts that mount the shock to the other parts are loose?

[asshanson]

It happened a little before I stopped and then just as I was stopping. I'll have MAP look at it when I get it up on the lift.

Shocks are new, bolts seemed ok.

[Swifty1638]

Everything still tight in the front end? did you ever do taht washer thing? Also, I can rebuild that boot for you, if you go get the rebuid kit for it. We do them all the time at honda and toyota-not terribly difficult. I'd swap the wheels over now, check all suspension bolts, and go from there.

Matt D. the smallest wheel weights are .25 oz. or 5 grams. then we go up.. .25, .50, .75, 1.00, 1.25, 1.50, etc etc etc.. We have in stock all the way up to 2.00, 2.25, 2.50.

-A. Swift

[xveganxcowboyx]

Not sure what washer thing swifty is talking about, but I did have to add some washers to my suspension setup when I did my struts. The 2 strut to knuckle bolts wouldn't tighten all the way without washers and caused all sorts of unpleasant movement and noises up front. Like swifty said, just check it all.

[asshanson]

I forgot which side had the worse camber problem in the rear...

Anyway, turned out to be just a really destroyed axle. All fixed

Plus I'm ordering a new rim for $160 on ebay so I don't have to put winter tires on yet.

[scheides]

Nice!