Head work

turbotalon1g · 06-26-2006

I have a Honda B16A head, that i need work done too. Most likely just a stock rebuild or something. Where can i go? What is the turn around time?

Thanks
Aaron

**Halon** · 06-27-2006

My head is getting redone at Red Rooster in Crystal. I've always been happy with anything I've gotten done by them before.

turbotalon1g · 06-27-2006

whats the down/return time that you have usually experienced?

**Halon** · 06-27-2006

This recent work took about a week and a half. But that was due to them having to replace 10 bent valves, and apparently a lot of my valve guides weren't straight from the last place that did it so they're redoing that, and the bottom of the head wasn't resurfaced as smooth as it should have been by that place either so they're doing that.

But if you're just looking to get the thing tested, I can usually bring it in around lunch, and have it back by dinner. And I am the king of bent valves, so I bring them stuff a lot, and I'm always happy with their service.

Jakey · 06-27-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ju-on

....from the last place that did it.......by that place either....

FFWD?

Thor06 · 06-27-2006

Brandon, how many valves have you bent? So far, I smoked a full set plus two and probably 2-4 more today. I can take off, take out the valves, put them (or new ones) back in, and get the head back on the car in like 12-14 hours.

**Halon** · 06-27-2006

I should really learn how to put valves in and out myself. I just pay out my ass all the time and get it done at a shop. So far on this car, I think I have bent somewhere in the range of 20 valves, and on my old GST I flat out busted 3 off, and never even bothered with figuring out how many just got bent. I sold the car as is to someone after I seen the damage.

Jakey, yes FFWD. I don't want to knock them too much because I thought the head looked gorgeous. But I don't know how to tell if guides are straight and all that other technical stuff, I'm just going by what Red Rooster tells me. I will be picking the head up from them tomorrow!

Thor06 · 06-27-2006

You can buy a valve spring compressor for like $70 or you can be a cheap bastard like me. I use a C clamp and a combination wrench, usually a 15mm. Put the closed side of the wrench over the retainer with the handle sorta resting on the part of the casting where the lifter goes, the fixed part of the C clamp on the bottom of the vavle and the adjusting part of the C clamp on the handle of the wrench as close to the head of the wrench as you can without obstructing the way out for the keepers. Then just tighten the clamp until the keepers are free and get them out with a needle nose or a magnetic screwdriver. Unscrew the C clamp, take out the spings/retainers, and just pop the valve through the seal and out the bottom of the head. It will take some practice and its not as fast, but to me it beats spending $70 for a valve spring compressor.

**Halon** · 06-27-2006

How do you check if your valve guides are straight? I am not too sure on everything, but if I bend some valves, isn't it a good idea to check if anything else was damaged? Also when you put in new valves, do you need to do any sort of machining or anything to make sure they seal up well?

tpunx99GSX · 06-27-2006

i know this is kinda noobish so im gonna keep this short and sweet.
How do you know if you have bent or broken valves?

Thor06 · 06-27-2006

A guide wont just bend, if it did, the valve would be stuck. I think I know whats going on in your case. If you ever just look at the bottom side of a guide (on our cars anyway), the hole wont be exactly in the middle. There is almost always some extra material on one side or the other. I heard this is because when the do this, they put the guides in THEN drill the holes. Well, when you break a guide and have new ones put in (like I am guessing you did), they put the holes throught the guide before they go into the head so the holes are right in the middle. See the problem? The valves will then be off center. Not to mention that the hole in the original guide might not be straight through the guide, it might be skewed a bit causing the valve to not fit in there right at all. Then the machinist would have to grind the shit out of the valve seat to get the valve to sit right. Yes, it is a good idea to check the other stuff out. Even on a bad fuck up, the worst that I have ever seen/heard of getting messed up during the actual bending is the tops of the pistons, vavles, and guides. All you have to do to check it out is look. Look for the guide to be cracked, chipped, or broken and look for the kisses on the pistons. I have never heard of pistons being fucked up to bad to not be useable just from bending valves. You can check the seat too, make sure its not messed up at all. Machining isnt necessary all the time but sometimes it is. If the valves werent seating very well anyway, might as well have the seats ground to fit the new valves. However, if the seats are still good, the new valves should just drop in and go.

You will know that a valve is possibly bent when there is no compression in that cylinder. Bent valves arent always the culprit to no compression, but they are the most common. Some times valves will be obviously bent. When I toasted my whole set, only 5 were obviously fucked up. To test to see which ones are bent, theres a couple methods. One, fill the port up with a liquid while the valves are closed and see which ones are leaking, those are the bent ones. The way I do it is turn off all the lights and shine a bright flashlight into the port. If its bent, you will be able to see light coming through around the valve.

Heres my story. I bought a '90 TSI AWD from Goat Blower over spring break with a blown headgasket. I tore off the head and sent the head to my dads friend for machining. It took me a couple weeks to get it off, I didnt have much time and I didnt know what the hell I was doing. He got it and had it for damn near 5 weeks, but he didnt charge me for the head planing (warped from overheating) or the valve job (ground the seats/original valves). Well, I got it all back together and was just driving out of the garage when it died. Uber shitty or no compression all the way across. I forgot to put that fucking washer back on before the bolt that holds the crank sprocket on. The sprocket walked away from the engine and the timing belt fell behind it. Thats when I trashed the full set. So then I had SBR 2 day air some new valves. I got them in, started the car and it ran like shit. Compression test showed no compression in cylinder 3. Both intake valves bent. So I ordered them yesterday, they were here today, got the bitch back together AGAIN and tried to start it. This time it wouldnt run, no compression in 1 and 25 psi in 4. So tomorrow after work I will go out and rip the fuckin head off AGAIN to see which valves I bent. I have bent about 20 valves and the car has been driven 10 feet since it was parked. At this rate, I will need another 17 billion hours of work time and 10,000 valves to get the bastard home! I know they arent bending due to bad timing or getting the head from the bench to on the car, I think its setting the timing that is killing me. I am going to have someone give me a hand next time. I think I have a lesser tolerance for fuck ups since the first time I put the head on, I got FP2's not too long ago.