beaterX project thread - Page 25

turbotalon1g · 10-28-2010

^Call me and I'll give you a hand quick. Once you get over this crank pulley fiasco I'm sure u will feel a little better.

t-revzr · 10-28-2010

Son slow down! You cant even get parts for awhile! Dont burn yourself out!

**scheides** · 10-28-2010

Spent a massive 20 minutes on the car today woot. Ended up hooking up most of the harness again to get the starter to turn over; two pops and the crank pulley bolt came loose! Just as I got the pulley off Anna came out and reminded me I was supposed to be helping with other stuff, gah. Ended up working the rest of the night for work, boo.

Fuk it will deal with it all this weekend.

FattyBoomBatty · 10-29-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Spent a massive 20 minutes on the car today woot. Ended up hooking up most of the harness again to get the starter to turn over; two pops and the crank pulley bolt came loose! Just as I got the pulley off Anna came out and reminded me I was supposed to be helping with other stuff, gah. Ended up working the rest of the night for work, boo.

Fuk it will deal with it all this weekend.

WORD!

**mlomker** · 10-29-2010

Nice. Always feels good to get over a hurdle.

**scheides** · 10-29-2010

LOL a really basic and simple hurdle. The biggest hurdle for me is finding time to even touch the car. I couldn't find the T55 socket (long skinny one not short and stubby) described in the howto for pulling the stock headbolts os I hope what I have will work, otherwise I'm just pulling the longblock/trans all as one tomorrow.

Enough whining, no more updates till I have carnage pics.

**scheides** · 10-31-2010

Super hung over from Mark's party last night but Kody came over for an afternoon/evening of 'do work son.' Had the head off after about two hours and the motor on the floor a few hours after that. On to the carnage pics.

Head off, piston#1 at TDC. Problem?

Head looks like it ate some shit. Just run it or should I get this cleaned up?

Good productive use of a saturday evening:

Piston out of cyl1, top ring missing about 1/3 and lower ring siezed in place:

Ouchie. Close-up of sides of piston:

Now close-ups of the cylinder walls. Just damage everywhere. Not sure what causes this but yea, not super pumped.

Cyl1(rear then front):

Cyl2(rear then front):

Cyl3(rear then front):

Cyl4(rear then front):

And finally, close-up of little damage on piston#4

So yea there it is. Gonna finalize what to do with the engine rebuild next week but MAP is offering me an extra nice deal on their new X-beam rods for the evoX. Comments/diagnosis/suggestions welcome!

Special thanks to Kody (GG_9_SE) for the hand today, couldn't have done it alone!

**Murlo26** · 10-31-2010

Ouch, that looks rough.

Does it look like a .020" overbore will take care of this or not so much? Tough to tell how deep it is from the pics.

FattyBoomBatty · 10-31-2010

What do you mean you don't know what caused that? The pistons lost chunks when you detonated and rubbed them against the cylinder walls before spitting them up into the chambers and munching your pistons.

Just detonation mayne. Get that block sleeved and some uber pistons, your free x-beam rods (hardy har, clever name for x parts, lol) and knife edge the crank for elitism. 1000awhp, go.

**mlomker** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

What do you mean you don't know what caused that?

I think he wasn't expecting damage on all of the cylinders since he didn't mention all of the pistons chunking. I've heard that bits can visit more than one cylinder before they exit although I'm not sure how that happens.

How does the turbo look?

Constant_Project21 · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

What do you mean you don't know what caused that? The pistons lost chunks when you detonated and rubbed them against the cylinder walls before spitting them up into the chambers and munching your pistons.

I have to agree with Mr. Fatty on this one. That seems like a good case of detonation. Just because not everyone of the cylinders is fukked, doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't detonation. A friend of mine pulled apart one of his engines, after it went boom, and one piston had a hole in it, the others looked fine (from the top at least). Were you running a pretty aggressive tune on this beast? That, with crappy gas...prob caused your problem. I know I am just reiterating what others have said, sucks to hear doood!

**scheides** · 10-31-2010

Haven't checked the turbo for shaft play or anything but did look pretty closely at all of the fins on both wheels and w/o removing the covers to be sure, they appear to be all there.

Just talked to Shawn (simulatedwood) and he's leaning towards TTP's theory where the rings are gapped to tightly from the factory. Running good (high) timing for extended periods causes EGTs to get high and the pistons/rings fully fully expand causing the cyl wear that can be seen on all cylinders. There doesn't really appear to be detonation pitting on top of the pistons (maybe I should go take closer pics of all piston tops to verify), and he said that perhaps the knock I was seeing was induced after the ring failed.

He's the second person to mention 'cold seizure' on snowmobile engines where the piston warms up faster than the cylinder wall/block, causing a similar outcome.

**Murlo26** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Haven't checked the turbo for shaft play or anything but did look pretty closely at all of the fins on both wheels and w/o removing the covers to be sure, they appear to be all there.

Just talked to Shawn (simulatedwood) and he's leaning towards TTP's theory where the rings are gapped to tightly from the factory. Running good (high) timing for extended periods causes EGTs to get high and the pistons/rings fully fully expand causing the cyl wear that can be seen on all cylinders. There doesn't really appear to be detonation pitting on top of the pistons (maybe I should go take closer pics of all piston tops to verify), and he said that perhaps the knock I was seeing was induced after the ring failed.

He's the second person to mention 'cold seizure' on snowmobile engines where the piston warms up faster than the cylinder wall/block, causing a similar outcome.

TTP's theory is interesting, but most other shops seem to disagree with them. I am not sold either way, but apparently the 4g63's have similar tolerances so who knows. I hate the idea that TTP could be right though, lol.

Matt D. · 10-31-2010

How do the rest of the pistons and head look?

Considering how uniform the scoring is across all cylinders I'm inclined to believe the piston ring theory as well.

**scheides** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

TTP's theory is interesting, but most other shops seem to disagree with them. I am not sold either way, but apparently the 4g63's have similar tolerances so who knows. I hate the idea that TTP could be right though, lol.

Yup, fukin hate TTP but who knows. Maybe the clearances are similar on 4G63's but there's some other reason that it does this sort of thing on the 4b11t?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

How do the rest of the pistons and head look?

Considering how uniform the scoring is across all cylinders I'm inclined to believe the piston ring theory as well.

The rest of the head looks fine, the rest of the pistons just have carbon build-up; I'll snap some pics later today.

**mlomker** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Maybe the clearances are similar on 4G63's but there's some other reason that it does this sort of thing on the 4b11t?

If the assumption is expansion/contraction then the metal composition could be different, even if the clearances were the same.

Matt D. · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

If the assumption is expansion/contraction then the metal composition could be different, even if the clearances were the same.

I wouldn't expect OEM engine components to vary much.

**mlomker** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

I wouldn't expect OEM engine components to vary much.

Between 4G and 4B? I'm no engineer but I don't assume that tolerances being the same between those two engines means very much.

**scheides** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

I wouldn't expect OEM engine components to vary much.

4G63: Iron block

4b11t: aluminum block, (?)sleeves

That's all I was sayin. Perhaps expansion rates are different between the two and thus tollerences for the level of power/torque/boost that we enthusiasts like to run don't play well together.

simulatedwood · 10-31-2010

Holy shit, the motors already out..nice work!

Looking at the pictures, Id say it is a combination of detonation and clearances, it did get hot on the exhuast side and caused bad things to happen.

Scheides, definitely have the head looked at, Ron @ RS has a vacumn tool to determine the condition of the valve seats, id give him a call. You might be lucky and just clean up the rough spots in the valve pocket on the damaged one and be done.