New Orleans the next Atlantis???

[Onefast99gsx]

Yeah, i just heard about that with the sniper shooting at relief workers. Fricking terrible! It's become a semi-war zone of its own. It's chaotic. One of the top U.S. cities in total ruins. I know i'd feel much different if it were myself or someone close to me, but if we didn't have natural disasters or accidents, this continent would be hugely over-populated and we wouldn't have the resources for everyone. I lost my mom when she was 49, you never get over it but you just learn to accept it. All you can hope is that they are in a better place than here.

[dsm10sec]

Originally Posted by CVD

You know what pisses me off? Is that the PEOPLE down there knew it would happen and they expected the GOVERNMENT to bail their asses out!!

So you think that, in a time of need, the government should turn it's head on OUR OWN COUNTRY's PEOPLE?? I'm not saying the government should give $1,000,000 grants to everyone that lived there(though it could easily afford it). Simply, give them housing, maybe some food.. I'm sure people can fend for themselves, but if you were down there, wouldn't it be nice to know you had SOMEONE backing you and you weren't alone in this. Your comment really pisses me off, I think the goverment should take away all you have (ALL MONEY, ALL CARS, YOUR HOUSE if you have one and maybe even A FEW FAMILY MEMBERS) and throw you into N.O. where there's a warzone down there and say " Fend for yourself asshole " Cause, that's what you're saying the govt. should do to my cousin and his family. I have two words for you. INCONSIDERATE ASSHOLE.

[CVD]

Thats me, being inconsiderate.

I wasnt saying that I disagree with the relief effort. Shit is fucked up down there and people need help.
I'm disagreeing with your comment that the Government, rather than the people, should have seen this coming and made arrangements before hand. I'm surprised that you or anyone thinks that because the city is basically a dry lake sitting between 2 bodies of water and a river, that the government should have "done something about it."
Heres an idea, move before the shit hits the fan.

Oh, but as far as the relief effort, I guess I am against rebuilding there. Thats just idiotic.

[dsm10sec]

And if this was your home, born and raised there, would you want to move because of some low-level hurricaines? They've been having hurricaines since the city was built and haven't seen one this powerful before. Hurricaines are nothing new, but the strength of this one was. My point is, hurricaines were just normal storms to them, they're use to it. They had a couple days of warning to get out of there, which most did. Now, they come back to find nothing left. They knew it was a category 4 hurricaine and cat 5 coming at them, but this has never happened before.

[CVD]

Originally Posted by dsm10sec

I'm not saying the government should give $1,000,000 grants to everyone that lived there(though it could easily afford it).

The idea that you think this is possible give me an idea of your grasp on reality. The government is made up of taxpayers, so that would be an average cost of $3500 per taxpayer. Relief efforts will cost enough without fanciful amounts of money being thrown at people simply because they were in the disaster area.
If they were dumb enough to live below sea level and surrounded by water, I can only hope they were smart enough to buy flood insurance.
Bad things sometimes happen. Just because you dont entirely deserve it doesnt mean you wont get stuck paying the consequenses. Thats life.

[dsm10sec]

durp

[CVD]

Originally Posted by dsm10sec

And if this was your home, born and raised there, would you want to move because of some low-level hurricaines? They've been having hurricaines since the city was built and haven't seen one this powerful before. Hurricaines are nothing new, but the strength of this one was. My point is, hurricaines were just normal storms to them, they're use to it. They had a couple days of warning to get out of there, which most did. Now, they come back to find nothing left. They knew it was a category 4 hurricaine and cat 5 coming at them, but this has never happened before.

Sure, thats understandable. Buy flood insurance and ride it out hoping for the best. But at least know the consequenses of your actions. I just despise people who fuck up then look to others to make things all better.

[Onefast99gsx]

Just read that hundreds of Americans are opening their homes to the refugees of Lousianna. That's good to hear. I could see supporting someone in my home as i have a spare room.

[awd-drifter]

Man, that is pretty crazy. I heard from CNN or somewhere that New Orleans is 80% under water. What would happen if Bush never sent us to war? Would gas still be high? Would we have more or less money? The government is in a major hole...i think.

[JET]

Wow, CVD is right on here. The people knew they lived in a lake bed. If YOU decide to do that then YOU have to live with the consequences! It is like building a city on a volcano that that is only active every 50 years. You know the shit is coming. Interviews with people even said they knew something like this was going to happen. It isn't up to the government to make up for dumb people.

Yes it is too bad your family lost a lot down there. They knew the possibility of a hurricane though, yet they accepted the possibility.

Like you said while defending the people, this had never happened before. Why would the government spend billions of dollars to prevent something that hadn't happened and possibly wouldn't in the near future? It sounds like you are very biased because this affected you indirectly.

[Onefast99gsx]

Yes, i agree that they decided to live there just like i decided to live here and they accepted the consequences. Every days brings new consequences to each and every person. The ENTIRE U.S. at this moment is responsible for the rescue efforts and cleanup in Lousinanna, Mass. and Alabama, plain and simple! As for rebuilding there, i'm totally against it. It will just happen again and us taxpayers just can't afford it let alone this one. We are responsible because it's a state of the U.S. Just because something wiped out a good chunk of it doesn't mean were are a country of 48 or 49 states now. What if some catastrophe happened up here in the Midwest? What if we had no heating oil/gas and temps dipped down to -30+ below out this winter. Many of us would freeze to death. A scenario like that isn't all that unrealistic. I don't think it would be right for people in the south to point figures and say "I told you so, that you shouldn't live up there in the north." I'd sure want some relief from the people of the south. We can't treat our own citizens like they've become enemies just because of their geographical location.

[JET]

No, I am not saying we should abandon the rescue efforts. That needs to happen. I just think dsm10sec is flying off the handle saying it is the governments responsibility to keep everyone safe. Shit happens, sometimes it happens to you and you have to deal with it. Do your best to avoid it and it will happen less. Make poor decisions (where to live in this case) and it will happen more.

[Onefast99gsx]

Yes i'm onboard with you 100%, JET. By knowing that this could have happened, we could have been more proactive about it in the early 1900's. Hate to say it, but we're a more reactive nation than anything. It usually takes a disaster like this to wake up. We're awake for awhile and soon after we go back to sleep for the next episode. I don't know if that's just supposed to be that way or we're dumb OR just run by dumb people. We pour billions of taxpayer dollars through the government portal and much of that is used for a good cause but dammit alot is wasted. Government just plain and simple, pisses me off. Government needs to watch it. There are 295 million people in the U.S. and the number of government officials isn't even a spec of that. Piss off enough people and you have one hell of a chaotic moment.

[Steeltwo]

Originally Posted by Onefast99gsx

Yes i'm onboard with you 100%, JET. By knowing that this could have happened, we could have been more proactive about it in the early 1900's. Hate to say it, but we're a more reactive nation than anything. It usually takes a disaster like this to wake up. We're awake for awhile and soon after we go back to sleep for the next episode. I don't know if that's just supposed to be that way or we're dumb OR just run by dumb people. We pour billions of taxpayer dollars through the government portal and much of that is used for a good cause but dammit alot is wasted. Government just plain and simple, pisses me off. Government needs to watch it. There are 295 million people in the U.S. and the number of government officials isn't even a spec of that. Piss off enough people and you have one hell of a chaotic moment.

i'm a "government official" and I have little impact on what happens around the state.
But I make the officers able to research your plate number so you can get tickets


as for this whole mess.
It's pretty horrible. People shooting the rescuers who are risking their own lives anyway. Hospitals having to lock their doors because people are trying to break in and loot the place.

i do agree with cvd and jet. That it's kinda like me being pissed because my house got torn up by a tornado.
What happened, I do not have any other word that horrible.
But why would you stay when you KNOW 160+mph winds are coming your way and a storm so big that it could envelope an entire state.

my ass would be beating feat. A weeks notice is enough to get the 500,000 people out of town. Some choose to stay because "they could ride it out". Since when does anyone ride out a catagory 5 ANYTHING?


as for the relief efforts, WTF is wrong with FEMA?
why didn't they have items ready. CATAGORY 5 FEMA, NOT 4 like Andrew was.
fyi: andrews was a cat 4 and caused 27+ billion in damage.


as for them not rebuilding the city. Not a chance in a hell of them NOT rebuilding.
Do you know the trillions of dollars that would take to make a new city that big in any acceptable amount of time? It will be levved again and pumped out, this time to hand 5x the amount of water.

not saying another city won't sprout up and take the commerce away and a good part of the population. But there WILL be another New Orleans within 6 months.

[DSMkel]

I live about an hour away from NO, and all I got to say is screw the city. I mean really....how many years will it take in order for the place to actually be safe to live in again? Not to mention all these fkn morons runnin around my hometown doin their gang crap! It's fricken retarded!!

Yeah anyways that's what I think.

[1ViciousGSX]

Some thoughts from somebody who just moved from there (Baton Rouge).

Yes New Orleans sits in a low lying area, yes people were warned to get out, and yes many were stupid for staying, BUT

If we took the approach and attitude that "if there were any possiblility of a natural disaster happening they should move away", then what to do about California which "they say" will fall off into the ocean one day or has several major earthquakes a year, or all the people who live in the great planes who might get hit by a cat 5 tornado, or Hawaii which is nothing but a whole line of active volcanos, or MN which has snow storms that may turn into the BIG ONE and leave many people dead and frozen because of no power or heat, or Arizona which can hit 110 deg F in the shade, or any other place we hear about that has some type of vulnerablility to it, etc., etc.? Maybe we could all move to Cuba with Castro, might be the safest place on Earth. Hurricanes are nothing new to us, they happen along the Gulf coast every year to some varying degree. This one just really turned into a bad one.

The biggest problem is that most people are "numb" when it comes to weather reports, news reports, etc. because everything gets all out of proportion and blown up to sell commercials and air time. Cry wolf how many times before people stop listening?

Let me give you some info from experience about New Orleans. It's a proud city with plenty of heritage and self worth. But many people there do not have cars and trucks, alot of the down town districts with communities don't rely on privately owned transportation, but use the mass transit systems (buses, trolly cars, bicycles, walking to work, etc.). Same as New York city if you need a comparison. So many people had no means to get out. Most of the areas that are requiring evacuation are poverty areas that couldn't get out. If you've ever visited Nawlins, you know what I'm talking about. There are only about 3 major highways leading out of New Orleans, so it can be very hard to get out at times.

As far as looting and shooting, looting for survival is exceptable (what would anybody do in that situation?), but shooting the people who are trying to help you is crazy. But before we condem anybody, think about the situation they are currently under. Put yourself in their place for a second.

Example;

You've lost loved ones, you've lost everything you own, you've had to leave your pets behind - dead or alive, you have no clothes, no food, no water, no sanitary conditions, think about the smells coming from everything around you, including death, seeing bodies getting discarded and piled up next to you because there's nothing else you can do with the dead, including your loved ones, all of the things we have everyday as a normal part of life are gone, you have no real way of knowing what's being done to help you (no electricity means no TV, no radio, no communication with the outside world, etc.), the water (and city) is now infested with poisonous snakes, alligators, some sightings of sharks that were blown in by the hurricane, gasoline rising out of under ground tanks along with many other chemicals, misquitos, and so on, etc. etc.. Now take into account that you're seeing and dealing with this for almost 5 days now. Wouldn't you loose some control too?

Evacuated or not, we all will feel some effect in one way or another. I'm thankful I was not there. Most of what we have all taken for granted about New Orleans is gone for ever.

-Mike

[cudvig]

wow, can the government really give 1 million dollars to everyone?

(get serious)

that will never happen, would you happen to know the economy is in a deficit? so obviously nothing would happen. plus how long does it take them to make a damn budget? government is slow on everything. Gotta respect most of them though, they do get elected by "our dumbasses"

-Colin

[A//// Guy]

Mike I like your viewpoint alot.

I think there should be alot more aid coming or already there though... its been what? 5 days since it happened and they are just getting there? Thats kinda bogus to me... I think the mayor only called for X amount of troops and that was obviously wrong because the govt sent a bunch more now.

What I dont understand is how some people are taking this and making it much bigger than it already is.

Take for example the Tsunami a few months ago.... NO warning, VERY poor conditions-worse than US anywhere, much larger area of devastation, etc. If they can get through it than I think New Orleans can get through it, its just that the bastards that are looting and causing trouble when theres no need are hurting the help. Its not because of food or water its because there is no law and people are raping others and taking whatever they want because they can (gangs).

Just take out the gangs and get on with the show.

Also if your going to """Ride it out""" why did you not prepare and gather food, water, constuct a shelter or reinforce something etc.... Thats what I dont get. I would have probably ridden it out too if I knew my house could take it- or a different building... I would have stocked up though, meds, food, water. If your going to take on the storm then do it with common sense?

[Onefast99gsx]

I don't think people are making it bigger than it is. It 'IS' big. New Orleans population is larger than Minneapolis. What if something took out Mpls? Is that not big enough to consider it a big event? I don't know, but to me, when a city that has a population over 450,000 that's pretty dam big. It's large enough of its own that even the media doesn't have to blow it out of proportion.

While watching CNN tonight, I was watching the banner below and I was proud of the other countries that vowed their support. Probably a list of 10 different countries. Among them, I was surprised to see China one of them, knowing that things are somewhat tense between the U.S. and China.

Yeah, you're right...it has taken way too long. It's been nearly 5 days now since the Hurricane started there. They do not really have a sense of plan to contain the situation. Those troops should have came in from the south the moment the Hurricane moved northward. It pisses me off that The President has no problem sending the military to another country, blow the shit out of it with missles, bombs, rockets, etc. but when it comes time to fix a situation in our own country, we don't know what to do. Hmmm.

65% of New Orleans are African Americans. A good portion of that number are victims of poverty. These people couldn't get out if they wanted to. Many didn't have vehicles to relocate themselves. This Hurricane hit Florida at a category 1 I think last Friday. Later Sunday it was upgraded to a category 5 when it was heading for the Gulf. That's not a whole lot of time to evacute more than a million people.

If government wants to do something, they can start with with making jobs for the victims of poverty and create better lifestyles for the low income. Our government allowed this to happen. We have over a 600 BILLION dollar trade deficit with China! How many hurricanes does it take to = 600B ? Yeah our American government is some of the hardest working people you'll ever find. Do favors for the people of other countries while some of our own people have to live like this.

[JET]

Yeah, we mobilized the Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard in 5 days to head over to Iraq. You obviously haven't been in the military. The military is like a huge company, you have to go through the chain of command to get something done and there is a ton of paper work. Then you have to get all the details worked out, provisions for the troops, transportation, etc.

Remember, there wasn't a big problem right after the hurricane struck. It was when the levee's went that things got bad. If you were to bring in all the troops so they were ready when the storm left, where would they stay so they were safe?? We would have had more victims. FEMA is the one that really dropped the ball. This is their reason for existance and they didn't do shit. They are supposed to organize this and have done a poor job. The military branches are acting more on their own.

When someone said the mayor didn't requisition enough NG troops, that is the governor of the state that calls up NG troops.

I do agree that the government pisses away WAY too much money on other coutries. Piss on them until we get out of the red. It is just like I do. If I have some extra money I will toss some towards a charity. If I am broke, F U, it's mine!