What to do.......

plymouthPSi · 06-09-2005

Alright, I need all your help on deciding what I should do with my car. This winter I decided to do a full build on my 1992 plymouth laser Rs AWD, right away I was not sure what to do and wanted to rush into things and get it done fast and cheap, well after talks with a few people in the game and some of you on here I decided to take my time and do things right. Saved up some money and took everything slow, made sure every part was checked and ended up with a built six bolt. eagle rods, wiseco .020 over pistons, king bearings, balance shaft elim kit from qpr. the works. The initial plan was to get it done before graduation which is tomorrow (friday) well we accomlished that, but with some difficulties and serious problems. Well we spent the whole weekend assembling the block and got it into the car and everything seemed to be alright, had some little problems along the way, nothing some good friends couldnt help with. Well we get the car running, timed it, all fluids full, some minor water leaks nothing major. Time for the test drive around the block, drives fine but has some misfires. I get it about halfway around the block and then a loud noise and some rattling thereafter, killed it immediatly. Pop the hood and dont see anything wrong, then I notice that the ps pump was not bolted up, and though that it rattled it self loose, my friend Nathan grabs it and I go to start it up, still the same noise.....he thinks right away that it is coming from under the valve cover, like a cap came lose or something. I distinctly hear somthing coming from under the car so I take a peek and see a chunk of my block sitting on the ground....oh crap I thought (censored) look around to see where it was from and find on the back of the block the balace shaft that I had purchaced from qpr had somhow gone through the block. how could this happen, I dont know, torqued everything to specs. We think that it somehow came off the sprocket and hit the crank and went through the block. Well here is the delema now, should I keep the car, find a block, hope to god the rotating assembly is intact, and build it again or sell it to a good home and be done with it. Thing is I am leaving to Universal technical institure in august and dont know if I want to deal with it before I leave. I would like to hear everyones opinion on what I should do and if anyone has any clue what could have caused that, but im sure we could find out when we rip it appart. Also if anyone has a 6bolt block lying around who would let go for some cash let me know. Well thanks for reading about my great week and hopefully I can get some good feedback that can help my decision.

Alex

ps I will through up some pictures after work tonight.

AJ · 06-09-2005

Ouch, that's about all I can say. As for to keep or sell I think you just need to decide if you want the car in it's finished form more than you want to be done with the issues that comes up.

**JET** · 06-09-2005

I have the 6 bolt block sitting in the garage. It just has bad pistons in it, the rest is good. You are going to lose your ass if you sell it, but that is the easier way out. Personally I would put a different block in and get it going again.

niterydr · 06-09-2005

I'd fix it, you will lose alot of money if you sell it as is.
If thats the case, what is the asking price as is?

Raptor · 06-09-2005

I called them today to find out what went wrong and help determine what to do with it. His mom answered since he wasn't home. Sounds like he will be getting it fixed, there is a mechanic at her work that is going to be looking at it. I will talk to Alex when he gets off work and see what may have gone wrong.

plymouthPSi · 06-09-2005

Mike, im home from work now, but we are celebrating my 18th birthday tonight so I am busy right now, if you would call me tomorrow in the afternoon that would be great. 651-271-5098 cell

thanks guys for your opinions

Alex

Raptor · 06-09-2005

I will do that Alex. Happy Birthday BTW

plymouthPSi · 06-10-2005

here are the pics

plymouthPSi · 06-10-2005

Thanks!

santa · 06-10-2005

I'd say fix it, once a DSMer Always! I can help you out in a few weeks when I graduate. It looks like the rotating assembly is fine from what you can see in the picture. The only place that the crank could have hit looks to be clean on the balance shaft.

Kevin

Alpine TSi · 06-10-2005

If you need it I will have a rebuildable 6 bolt block available in the next week or so, I could let it go for pretty cheap as it would just be a paper weight sitting in my garage.

**JET** · 06-10-2005

Was there a bearing in for the balance shaft? I could see someone forgetting to put a bearing in there as you can't really see in there.

plymouthPSi · 06-10-2005

bearing was in, as for people offering me blocks let me know for sure and I will gladly take one off your hands for some cash. thanks again

Alex

Raptor · 06-10-2005

Well, I know from talking to them before that the block did have new BS bearings in, the machine work was done by Napa. I just got off the phone with Alex, it was assembled without threadlock and at the wrong torque spec which is what I had suspected. The turned down ones are somewhat difficult to get correct torque to anyway, there is no surface to clamp the shaft to that isn't round so a few tricks get employed to get it tight without flexing it etc. Sounds like they were close, took most of the right precautions, soft jaws etc. The lack of locktight is likely the major issue. This is one of those things that you hate to see, could have been avoided, but ends up being another one of those expensive learning experiences. Which brings up my old thought of having a engine building basics area or thread that goes through step by step on a normal rebuild. A good place to get answers for people with the ambition to do it themselves without finding out by accident all the places that have bad info, like the many places in the manuals.
That and the simple tricks that make all of it easier.

Raptor · 06-10-2005

I should say Alex deserves credit for doing it himself, big thing to tackle if you havn't done it before. And actually, I am sure there is a failure of some sort on just about every first motor build.

FORSFED · 06-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

I should say Alex deserves credit for doing it himself, big thing to tackle if you havn't done it before. And actually, I am sure there is a failure of some sort on just about every first motor build.

I can vouch for that...my first motor let go in 500 miles. On the bright side, my new motor is stronger and running better than ever

santa · 06-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

I should say Alex deserves credit for doing it himself, big thing to tackle if you havn't done it before. And actually, I am sure there is a failure of some sort on just about every first motor build.

Well my first rebuild is still in my car and has over 10,000 miles on it now. Its still going strong. I hope you decide to build it up again alex!

Kevin

dumb_ricer · 06-11-2005

Heres my input on this.

I helped with the motor up to the front cover installation. Everything on the base short block went well. Clearances were all great and right on spec and all caps were torqued properly. We used the moly lube on the rods which came with it and used standard motor oil for the main cap bolts as that is what we used when we torqued it before machining. Beyond this point I have no idea what went on with the front cover install. BUT if I remember correctly the turned down balance shaft belt for the oil pump is run off of the oil pump sprocket, is this correct? And if that is correct, it would run off the timing belt. The problem I see is that after whatever happened to the Balance shaft happened, the timing belt was still perfectly tensioned from what I could feel, and the car still started right up the 2nd time for all the 2 seconds it was running.

As far as keeping it or selling it, it is not my descision, but I say if you feel it will be reliable through UTI, then go for it.

Raptor · 06-11-2005

The balance shaft has the smaller oil pump gear on it's end bolted down while the other gear has the timing belt driven sprocket on it. They both require locktight and have different torque specs for each.
The balance shaft can come out with the timing belt gear still attatched and proper tension still being maintained. That is a good thing to hear anyway, at least there is no top end issues to worry about.

**Goat Blower** · 06-11-2005

Not the same reason I passed on putting in a turned down balance shaft for the last motor I built and the one I'm building for myself, but one less thing to worry about.

Good luck on whatever you do with it.