How Do You Think The Debate Went?

[A//// Guy]

Originally posted by remy+Oct 11 2004, 09:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (remy @ Oct 11 2004, 09:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-LightningGSX@Oct 10 2004, 09:18 PM
??????

look at the screenshot tool. it is all por bush anti kerry. i sure would trust them.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html...DA90994DC404482 [/b][/quote]
Have you ever watched the Orielly factor? Sure he may hav a biase but he reports the whole story. I love when he gets mail from democrats accusing things and just spills it in their laps.

You should watch some time... you may learn something.

[john]

And you should go to a Micheal Moore convention. It may be a bit biased though. You may learn something .

Originally posted by 92tsiawd84@Oct 11 2004, 11:59 AM
And you should go to a Micheal Moore convention. It may be a bit biased though. You may learn something .

I went to a democratic caucus to listen to intelligent logical views why people are democratic. I have a difference in opinion and dont believe in hand outs. michael moore convention was a joke. I think there were more people protesting the event then were inside listening to the bs. allot of open seats. It may be a bit biased, dah, do you think so.

[A//// Guy]

Moore is a LOT more biased then Fox news is... Sorry but he only looked at one side. Fox looks at both and then picks the logical winner in each circumstance.

Originally posted by EclipseTurbo@Oct 11 2004, 12:31 PM
Moore is a LOT more biased then Fox news is... Sorry but he only looked at one side. Fox looks at both and then picks the logical winner in each circumstance.

The otherside of the story? You show me how Bush and family don't have financial interests tied in with Saudi Arabia.

[LightningGSX]

Originally posted by remy+Oct 11 2004, 08:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (remy @ Oct 11 2004, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-LightningGSX@Oct 10 2004, 09:18 PM
??????

look at the screenshot tool. it is all por bush anti kerry. i sure would trust them.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html...DA90994DC404482 [/b][/quote]
It is? Other than the Google ad, point out the anti Kerry/pro Bush shit.

[LightningGSX]

Originally posted by remy@Oct 11 2004, 01:06 PM
The otherside of the story? You show me how Bush and family don't have financial interests tied in with Saudi Arabia.

How about YOU show us how they do. Without quoting some obscure propaganda website.

[npaulseth]

FYI the only reason I posted that Fox news screen shot was because of the google ad. It just seemed kinda funny.

[LightningGSX]

Hey Remy, once again its looking like YOU are the tool.

[curt_gendron]

Wow, politics is a hot topic around here. I'm really not much into politics, but I do want to touch on the shipping of jobs overseas issue.

I know a few years ago there were a many DSM owners in the IT business that are not in the IT business today. The economy soured and jobs were lost. Big companies in the Twin Cities like American Express and Target have shipped thousands of jobs, mostly IT jobs over to India in the past five years. These companies are certainly free to do this, but the government actually gives them tax breaks for it.

This issue affects everyone currently holding any kind of programming, networking, or other computer job. Because these jobs are gone from the Twin Cities market, we actually get paid less, because of the less demand. And for those of you that were once in the IT industry and are now doing something else, this should bother you to.

Granted, the economy did go down the crapper in 2001, and I'm not saying that is a Democrat or Repuplican issue, because its not. But the Bush run government in place now certainly is doing nothing but encourgaging big businesses to ship IT jobs overseas today.

Thankfully I work for a fortune 500 company that sends no IT jobs to India.

later,
Curt

[slowbubblecar]

Originally posted by LightningGSX@Oct 11 2004, 09:15 PM
Hey Remy, once again its looking like YOU are the tool.

nice come back... :razz2:

[LightningGSX]

Originally posted by curt_gendron@Oct 12 2004, 11:36 AM
Wow, politics is a hot topic around here. I'm really not much into politics, but I do want to touch on the shipping of jobs overseas issue.

I know a few years ago there were a many DSM owners in the IT business that are not in the IT business today. The economy soured and jobs were lost. Big companies in the Twin Cities like American Express and Target have shipped thousands of jobs, mostly IT jobs over to India in the past five years. These companies are certainly free to do this, but the government actually gives them tax breaks for it.

This issue affects everyone currently holding any kind of programming, networking, or other computer job. Because these jobs are gone from the Twin Cities market, we actually get paid less, because of the less demand. And for those of you that were once in the IT industry and are now doing something else, this should bother you to.

Granted, the economy did go down the crapper in 2001, and I'm not saying that is a Democrat or Repuplican issue, because its not. But the Bush run government in place now certainly is doing nothing but encourgaging big businesses to ship IT jobs overseas today.

Thankfully I work for a fortune 500 company that sends no IT jobs to India.

later,
Curt

I don't know about you, but I attribute the economic plunge to 9/11.

[A//// Guy]

Thing is... most IT jobs that are shipped over are customer service help desk jobs. Which are not the middle to higher end IT jobs out there. Those have to stay here because you deal with the actual hardware and managing of networks and the like.

Thats what Im going to school right now for and Im hoping there will be some jobs out there. Sure it went down but thats also because .com's hit the floor.

I can see jobs that require more phone work or actual programming work being shipped over but not the network admin type jobs out there.

[Jana]

Ok, I've let this thread go on for days to see if ppl would grow up.

The next person to directly bash a member will be banned by me. And the person after that, and so on. I realize politics is a hot topic, but you do not need to directly attack members.
(same thing I posted in the other politic thread)

[curt_gendron]

Originally posted by EclipseTurbo@Oct 12 2004, 02:29 PM
Thing is... most IT jobs that are shipped over are customer service help desk jobs. Which are not the middle to higher end IT jobs out there.

Thats not entirely true. Yes help desk jobs are an easy one to ship overseas, but I've personally seen entire development projects sent to India. From product analysis to all the development of the software can be done in India. I've seen it.

Networking support jobs can go to. If you can log in at home and support a network, there is no reason someone from Bombay can't do it.

When I first started in the business, I was doing helpdesk work. Its a good starting point. I'd hate to see college grads not even be able to get decent starter jobs.

later,
Curt

[curt_gendron]

Originally posted by LightningGSX@Oct 12 2004, 01:17 PM
I don't know about you, but I attribute the economic plunge to 9/11.

Yes, your right. The number one reason the economy took a plunge is because of 9/11. The practice of shipping IT jobs to India started in the late 90s by necessity because of the Y2k scare. Contracting companies were bringing thousands of Indians over here to fix source code for Y2k bugs. Big companies developed relationships with these "offshore" contacting companies. After Y2k, companies started shipping jobs overseas. In recent years it has really exploded. Its only going to get worse if the government doesn't step in. I don't think Bush is going to do anything about it. I'm not even sure if Kerry is going to stop it. But you are always going to have a better chance of a Democrat fixing a problem like that. Its a fix for the little people like us.

later,
Curt

[john]

Originally posted by EclipseTurbo@Oct 12 2004, 03:29 PM
Thing is... most IT jobs that are shipped over are customer service help desk jobs. Which are not the middle to higher end IT jobs out there. Those have to stay here because you deal with the actual hardware and managing of networks and the like.

Thats what Im going to school right now for and Im hoping there will be some jobs out there. Sure it went down but thats also because .com's hit the floor.

I can see jobs that require more phone work or actual programming work being shipped over but not the network admin type jobs out there.

I do not agree with you. What can be done here can easily be done there. Obviously they cannot come to your house but aside from that, it can be accomplished.
Since the "higher" jobs are here, what makes you think that you are going to come strait out of school and get one? There are several people out there that have graduated and been in the field for a few years that are out of jobs and searching for a new field.
I wish you good luck in finding a nice IT job when you get out of school.

As far as the economy, yeah 9-11 killed it. I have not seen Bush set aside some time and help it though. It seems that he is hurting it even more with his view on outsourcing.

[A//// Guy]

Sure you can do things remotely but what about setting up hardware, or dealing with other companies... overseeing things other than just over the phone or through the network.

It cannot all be done remotely.

As for the High end jobs... I mean more 4 year versus 2 year degrees. Help desk jobs are easier to come by because mostly you only some experience or a two year tech degree.

The more experience the better. I hope I get a good job, my brother's in the IT business so I get alot of info onwhats going on lately... and I am currently working in th IT department at my work, so that experience surely helps... but who knows what will happen...

Computers will always be here.