2.4 build advice needed.

**Tachyon** · 05-07-2009

I've decided to build one of my 2.4 G4CS blocks this month and am looking for some advice from the people who have been down this road before.

Basically what I would like to do is a 10:1 compression build that will be running E85 and as much timing as possible. I also prefer little turbos so odds are I will be overboosting something small only adding to the difficult cylinder pressures. My main question is what head gasket and stud setup would make the most sense for a higher cylinder pressure engine like this?

P.S. yes I do enjoy longs walks on the beach and rebuilding transmissions.

**goodhart** · 05-07-2009

I would say a Cometic MLS, and some ARP L19's should get the job done.

carltalon · 05-07-2009

Felpro MLS ( I think is availble for 2.4 ) and ARP L19's

**Tachyon** · 05-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by carltalon

Felpro MLS ( I think is availble for 2.4 )

Oh nice, looks like the Fel-Pro MLS is 87mm bore. Has anybody had any problems using the L19's vs the H11's? (I am assuming the price difference is in the marketing?)

I had a Cometic HG on my 2.0 and was pushing coolant even with using copper spray so I am kind of looking for an end-all solution if it exists.

Another idea that was suggested to me was to O-ring the block and use a stock composite. Anybody have experience with that type of setup?

**v8klla** · 05-07-2009

The Felpro PermaTorque MLS seems to be the hot ticket these days, we have and will continue to use it on the RX-7 with great results. The bore size will support the 2.4l platform unlike the Mitsu MLS which would be our second choice.

In regards to the L19 vs H11 question, they are actually the same material just a different name (apparently ARP made up the L19 designation). Also, the pricing on the A1's has come down dramatically so we are able to match the ARP pricing

I just so happen to have both the FelPro MLS and the A1 studs in stock, feel free to stop by

blackrosenova400 · 05-07-2009

I just got done with my 2.4, im using Arp L19's and the Fel Pro Permatorque. Id go with that route. I went with Wiseco 8.8:1 Pistons, Eagle Rods, and im running an evo III 16g with e85 and loving it.

PS, The oil pan will not clear the Arp main studs, if thats what you use. I actually used a crank scraper from here, http://www.crank-scrapers.com/prod01.html, it helped, stil need to clearance the pan just a bit.

**Tachyon** · 05-07-2009

That good information to know. Thank you gentlemen.

The only other thing that is bothering me about going 2.4 is I hear the lower end likes to shift around more than with the 4g63? Would it be prudent to run a main girdle on a 2.4 or am I listening to baseless hearsay?

95talonracer · 05-07-2009

Why so much timing? You dont gain much past like 16-18 from what I have heard.

sleepydsm · 05-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tachyon

That good information to know. Thank you gentlemen.

The only other thing that is bothering me about going 2.4 is I hear the lower end likes to shift around more than with the 4g63? Would it be prudent to run a main girdle on a 2.4 or am I listening to baseless hearsay?

You could just use a 7 bolt 2.4L with a full girdle....

Or get a Kigley girdle.

Or you could "dowel" the main caps...

**Tachyon** · 05-08-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95talonracer

Why so much timing? You dont gain much past like 16-18 from what I have heard.

You can on E85 since it burns slower. I picked up 30lbs of TQ on a mild 14b 2.0 setup going from 18 to 23 degrees. At 24 degrees it gained nothing, and by 25 degrees it would actually drop. Obviously I am not going to know where the sweet spot for this engine will be until it's on the rollers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepydsm

You could just use a 7 bolt 2.4L with a full girdle....

Or get a Kigley girdle.

I am already setup to use the 6 bolt. I am leaning towards the Kiggly girdle but I need to do some more research first.

**Goat Blower** · 05-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tachyon

That good information to know. Thank you gentlemen.

The only other thing that is bothering me about going 2.4 is I hear the lower end likes to shift around more than with the 4g63? Would it be prudent to run a main girdle on a 2.4 or am I listening to baseless hearsay?

Baseless hearsay. A girdle isn't needed unless you're running some crazy RPM. I've spun mine to 8500 several times with stock Hyundai main bolts with no problems.

I run the Cometic regular metal headgasket and ARP's. Tons of dyno pulls and street runs, I got a small leak on the headgasket from a bit too much timing. Put it back together with a new gasket, no problems since.

blackrosenova400 · 05-09-2009

I put on a Kiggly Girdle, only 150$, id say worth it, but you will have to have the machine shop check if you need to align hone the mains. I didnt need it on my g4cs.

**Goat Blower** · 05-09-2009

To do it all over again, I would also buy Kevin's girdle, not that it's absolutely needed, but while you're in there, I like to overbuild things a bit.

**v8klla** · 05-11-2009

We use the Kiggly Racing main girlde on our RX-7 as well as his vale springs

Great quality and well worth the extra insurance!

Archertsi · 05-19-2009

Make sure you buy adjustable cam gears and have the cams degreed in. There is no cam offered at this current time for a 2.4 block and timing belt. (longer belt) Even Mitsu (oem) 2.4 cam gears will NOT get your motor in true correct cam time. It may run, but not in true time.

Every cam offered (even fp3 or 3x) have cam gear dowel positions for the length of a 2.0 belt.

blackrosenova400 · 05-19-2009

I can help degree cams, let me know, I have a nice big degree wheel, two solid lifters, and a really nice snapon dial indicator to do it with. Just buy me a twelve pack

**Tachyon** · 05-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archertsi

Make sure you buy adjustable cam gears and have the cams degreed in. There is no cam offered at this current time for a 2.4 block and timing belt. (longer belt) Even Mitsu (oem) 2.4 cam gears will NOT get your motor in true correct cam time. It may run, but not in true time.

Every cam offered (even fp3 or 3x) have cam gear dowel positions for the length of a 2.0 belt.

Oh I plan on it. I want to initially run this setup with a stock head (+adjustable cam gears) Then upgrade to Kelford 272's with Kiggly springs to see what type of gains I get for my own data point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackrosenova400

I can help degree cams, let me know, I have a nice big degree wheel, two solid lifters, and a really nice snapon dial indicator to do it with. Just buy me a twelve pack

Hey I'll defiantly take you up on that when the time comes (just let me know what you like to drink). It will probably be another month before I am ready due to fact I am purchasing a house (first time home owner) which requires my financial priority right now

**Goat Blower** · 05-19-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archertsi

Make sure you buy adjustable cam gears and have the cams degreed in. There is no cam offered at this current time for a 2.4 block and timing belt. (longer belt) Even Mitsu (oem) 2.4 cam gears will NOT get your motor in true correct cam time. It may run, but not in true time.

Why wouldn't it? The 95 Galant DOHC 2.4 engine is exactly the same as what we build, just with crappy pistons and higher compression and of the course the dreaded 7-bolt setup. I ran the stock 95 cam gears in mine with HKS 272's and made decent power with it, runs fine. Now I run the adjustable gears simply marked identically to the stockers, I haven't gotten around to degreeing them properly.

Archertsi · 05-19-2009

Put a degree wheel and dial indicator on it and you will see what I mean. Yes, it will run, but not as well as it should/could.

The cams on the 2.4 motors have the dowel in a different position in relation to the centerline of the cam.

It's a conversation you and I should have the next time you are in Duluth because it is so much to type.

2.4 engines have a longer timing belt, so when the crank is at TDC, each cam gear is off by 1/2 tooth. So on the 2.4 cam gears, the timing marks are moved by a half tooth. But look at where the dowel hole is drilled.

If you put a 2.0 on and engine stand, stock belt and stock gears. Then put a 2.4 on an engine stand, 2.4 belt, 2.4 gears. Look at the position of the dowels while the crank is at TDC, they are not in the same position. The dowel hole is drilled in a different spot in relation to timing marks on a 2.4 cam gear then on a 2.0.

Well every cam out there (including fp3's, verified by a phone call with fp) has the dowel inserted in the cam so that with a 2.0 gear, the centerline of the cam is where it needs to be. fp3/fp3x cams where built for 2.3 strokers, not 2.4 with the longer timing belt.

Pretty much by using a 2.4 mitsu cam gear, at TDC with the cam gear timing marks lined up, the cam is not in the right spot because the dowel hole in the 2.4 cam gear rotates it just slightly.

Im not saying it wont run or wont make good power, Im just saying that if you put a degree wheel on it, solid lifters, dial indicator, piston stop, etc etc etc, you will see that the lift of the valve is not correct in relation to the crank. I verified this on my motor with both 2.0 gears and 2.4 gears.