If you are going to post comments about what you are about to read, PLEASE read it all the way through first. Yes it's long to read. It took me a long time to type all of this. For those of you who are wondering why it's taking so long for me to get my car back together, read on.
Spend your $$$ wisely,
I’m usually a very easy going person who is willing to work with people and give anybody the benefit of the doubt, but I feel I must write this. I will only give you the facts of my experience; you make up your own mind.
As some of you know I have purchased two (2) Stage 3 cylinder heads, two (2) Stage 4 2.4L-LR short blocks, a 1g/2g conversion kit w/gaskets and a sheet metal intake from Magnus Motorsports. Needless to say I have spent a large sum of money with them. Also I would like to say that Marco and Steve are very nice people to talk to and deal with, no doubt about that. But Magnus Motorsports disappoints me with the quality of work performed and the level of professionalism I got from them. Read on to understand what I mean by this.
I contacted Marco @ Magnus Motorsports early September ’03. We talked for about 30 minutes to an hour about what I wanted, how the engine was built, what components were used, how much power I could expect to make with proper tuning, how much power the engine could produce reliably, what rpm I could take it to, and how much boost and/or nitrous I could put into it, etc. I also wanted to make sure there would not be any problems putting a 1g 2.4L into my 2g, whether it was a bolt on issue or electronics. Marco said all the provisions are there for everything to bolt up, except for the knock sensor location. But Marco did say he would drill and tap the factory location for it. After talking with Marco and explaining I wanted to run 30+ psi and possibly nitrous, I felt really good about going with the stage 3/stage 4 2.4L-LR in my streetcar and that Magnus Motorsports were the professionals to let build it. Marco even offered and gave me a “package deal” price. Sounds like a great deal so far.
I’ll separate my two engine purchases below and what I went through with each of them.
1st engine;
Problem #1
I officially placed my order with Magnus on 09/18/03 by way of a fair deposit on the order. I again with Marco went over what I was getting with this order. At that time I was told it would take 60 days to build and then get shipped out. After placing the order, I only talked to Marco once or twice that same week to help me decide what compression ratio I wanted to go with (8.5:1) and left it at that. I don’t know about you, but I’m one of those people who if told it will take a certain amount time to do something, will leave you alone for that time frame and expect it to be ready at that time as promised or at least expect a phone call to let me know of the delay. I did check in at about the 45-50 day point to do a friendly check on it and was told they were waiting for some part or parts (I don’t remember what part/s it was exactly, but I think it was the pistons). Well 60 days went by and nothing, so I called to check, “still waiting for parts”. To make a long story short, I got my engine around the 2nd or 3rd week in December, 90 days after my order. I had planned to take a weeks vacation to assemble and install my engine based on what Magnus had told me, but that opportunity had now passed. Not a big problem, I completely understand delays happen. Merry Christmas to me, but wait, there are some problems.
Problem #2
Some of the parts and gaskets for the 1g/2g kit are missing and there is no head gasket. The kit was supposed to include a complete gasket set (including the head gasket). So I immediately call Magnus. Steve tells me that the other components and gaskets I need for my 1g/2g kit are on back order with Mitsubishi. I was never made aware of this prior to my engine shipping and had to figure it out on my own. I can’t tell you for sure when Magnus ordered the parts from Mitsubishi, but I got the feeling it were closer to when my engine was finished instead of when I placed my order for it. I did eventually get all my hard parts, but had to buy a gasket or two that I never received.
Problem #3
Also Steve tells me that the Cometic head gasket that I’m expecting to be with my engine is no longer included in the engine package. It was on the website and in the agreement with Marco at the time of my order. But Magnus changed their website and policy about it after I had placed my order and while I was waiting for my engine to be built. It would seem to me that if you make a policy change after the order, you should honor it for all who placed an order prior to the change right? So after explaining that it was included with my engine purchase Marco agreed to send me the head gasket at no charge. Great right?
Problem #4
I get the head gasket, but it’s the low-pressure version of the head gasket, not the high-pressure version with the built-in o-ring/fire-ring. Surprising to me that Marco would send me the “LP” gasket knowing that I’m planning to put 30+ psi to this engine. I check with Cometic and they tell me I can run more than the rated 15 psi, but they don’t recommend the pressures I’m talking about. I call Magnus and Marco tells me they run that gasket in their car all the time with no problems. Good for them, but not in my car. So Marco agrees to send me another gasket at no charge. I offer to send him this gasket back, but Marco tells me to keep it as a “gift”. Thanks?
Problem #5
I get the new Cometic “HP” gasket in a few days later. Now I have a new problem. The first head gasket I got has a compressed thickness of .057, but the new gasket is .040. I found it strange that a purposely built and blueprinted engine with a specified compression ratio of 8.5:1 would have two different thickness gaskets sent for it. Once again I call Magnus and Marco tells me that it’s no big deal. I won’t know the difference. So I ask him which gasket my engine was set up for? Answer, “Either one of them, it doesn’t matter”. I would think it does matter since Cometic offers 3 different thicknesses. So much for blueprinting.
Problem #6
In talking with Marco about putting the 2.4L in a 2g, I asked about the knock sensor location. I wanted to make sure there would not be any problems. Marco said he would drill and tap the block for me in the factory location for the knock sensor. Marco said the location is there, but it’s just not drilled and tapped. Well guess what? Not only was the block not drilled and tapped, but also the factory location was not there either. Once again I’m on the phone with Marco. He says he forgot about it, but all I need to do is drill and tap it. I explain to him there is not a factory boss in the side of the block at the 2g location. Marco says he can look into building me a bracket to bolt to the side of the block where the a/c compressor goes. Sorry but I’m keeping my a/c. Secondly, how is that going to transmit knock into the sensor correctly. Another alternative he gave was having a special freeze plug machined to replace the freeze plug nearest to the stock location. Then drill and tap it. After further “net” searching, talking with Marco and numerous other people, we decide it’s ok to use another factory boss on the side of the block. It’s a lower location on the block, but close enough to work.
Problem #7
I finally get to start putting this engine together. Get the bottom end put together (front cover, rear main seal, oil pan, etc.) with no problems. Get the head on and tightened down after having to trim a few ARP nuts/washers to clear the valve springs and shims. Going well so far. I install the camshafts with engine assembly lube; torque the camshaft caps into place and find that the intake cam will not spin freely. WTF? This is without the followers in place and no pressure on the cam. I have a tool that allows me to install the followers with the cams in place. So I loosen all the caps one at a time, and then re-torque each cap back down. The intake cam will still not turn freely. WTF? So I loosen each cap again one at a time and check for it to spin freely. Finally when I get to the last cap where the CAS would be and loosen it, the cam spins freely. So I remove the intake cam to investigate. Well the problem comes from the cylinder head being painted silver. Who ever painted the head didn’t mask off the important areas and there is paint overspray inside of the last intake cam bearing surfaces. So now I get to polish ever so gently, silver paint out of the cam journal surface of a head that’s bolted onto my engine. I have to polish in a direction that hopefully would not allow paint and grit to go down the oil feed passage of the cylinder head. I never really understood why an aluminum head would need to be painted silver in the first place?
Problem #8
I get the cams degreed in and go to install the valve cover. I now find that the threads are missing, gone, stripped out for 2/3rds of the valve cover bolts at the head. So now I’m on the hunt for longer bolts that will reach deeper into where the threads are supposed to be. I really don’t want to take a chance drilling and installing Heli-coils on this head for several reasons. That’s a lot of threads to repair, there’s not much metal to deal with in the first place and I don’t want to take a chance of metal getting into this engine. Very disappointing as I would think Magnus should have addressed this prior to assembly and shipping.
Problem #9
Engine is assembled finally. I start to put my accessories brackets onto the outside of the engine and find that not one, but all of the threads on the outside of the block are rusted severely. Severely enough that the bolts won’t even start to thread in. So now I get to re-tap/chase the threads that I need to install my brackets. Very disappointing as I would think Magnus should have addressed this prior to assembly and shipping also.
Seems like a long list of issues, but finally I have the engine assembled and installed in my car. Remember though, this is the first engine.
To keep the record straight, I want you to understand the reason I had to replace this new engine was not Magnus Motorsports fault. Let me say this again, “The reason I had to replace this new engine was not Magnus Motorsports fault.”
Somehow during the build up and/or installation of the engine a threaded stud fell into a cylinder. When, where, why or how I’ll never know. If I did know, I would have gotten it out before cranking the engine over. Needless to say, 8 revolutions into cranking it over for the first time and having the engine attempt to fire up, she locks solid, cracking a cylinder wall, smashing a valve seat, bending a valve and destroying a piston. I get to buy a second new engine. Yeah it didn’t make me too happy.
Let's do it again!
So I again contact Magnus Motorsports about purchasing another Stage 3/Stage 4 2.4L engine with 8.5:1 cr. I talk to Marco and this time I decide I want to add the 1g oil squirters to the 2.4L block. He said he has done it before, but it cost extra. I ask how much and he replies $250.00. Seems high, but I want them in there and I tell him to do it. I then order a Cometic head gasket at my expense. Marco tells me “You should just use the one you’ve got already.” I reply, “You mean the one I’ve already installed and torqued down?” And Marco replies, “We do it all the time on our car.” Well not on my car, “Send me a new gasket. And make sure it’s the “HP” gasket.” I also explain to Marco (and Steve several times) that I don’t want the cylinder head painted this time. As you’ve read, I have good reasons for this. I pay my deposit the first week of April and start the waiting game.
I'm sure at this point some of you are asking yourselves why I would order a second engine from Magnus with what I've already written. But as I said in the beginning, "I like to give people the benefit of the doubt". And at the time, there were not any other builders I could find who had experience with and were doing long rod 2.4L engines (but there are now). Plus there's no 1g/2g kit issues since I already have the parts and all I need to do is get another head, shortblock and gaskets.
Engine #2
Problem #1
The connecting rods for my engine come up on back order with Pauter. So I start the longer than anticipated waiting game. I understand that this was not Magnus Motorsports fault. But my experience with my first engine and this one is making me wonder if Magnus keeps anything in stock or if it’s only ordered once a deposit is made for a purchase. So I keep in touch by checking periodically with Marco and Steve. In checking with Steve, the rods finally show up from Pauter in early/mid summer.
Problem #2
So now I’m thinking everything is good to go. I would expect my engine is being balanced and going through final assembly since Magnus received the rods. So I give it some time (a couple of weeks) and call to check on it. At this point I’m told that they are waiting for a shipment of engine blocks so they can start on my engine. WTF? I wonder why this would be last thing to happen instead of the first? Then I ask about the cylinder head. They have not even started on it yet. Go figure!
I finally get a call from Steve the first week of August to let me know my engine is finally ready. I ask to go over what I’m getting prior to shipment this time so there won’t be any problems. I start asking Steve these questions one at a time;
Q. Stage 3 1g-cylinder head?
A. Yes.
Q. Is the cylinder head painted?
A. No.
Q. Stage 4 2.4L long rod short block?
A. Yes.
Problem #3
Q. Are the 1g oil squirters installed in the block?
A. What oil squirters?
I explain to Steve that Marco quoted me a price to install the 1g oil squirters into the block while the machine work was being performed and that I gave him immediate authorization to do it. Reply, “Let me find Marco and I’ll call you back”. I don’t remember if Steve called me back or I had to call him back.
More on the return phone call situation later. But once Steve and I are on the phone again he tells me “Marco said they wouldn’t fit. Not enough clearance.” Yep, the same Marco who told me they had been done before and could be added to the 2.4L block. Sounds like an easy out for forgetting to put them in. And shouldn't I have received a phone call at the time that it was discovered they wouldn't fit?
At this point I’m not too happy, but I’m tired of waiting for my engine. Steve confirms my shipping address so he can ship it out ASAP. I ask Steve for the total of my invoice. Steve replies, “I need to get the shipping cost and I’ll call you back”. Well needless to say, no call back. So at this point I let it go and figure I’ll call back in a day or two when I’m in a better mood. I hate talking business with people when I’m pissed off. On top of that I’m busy getting ready to spend two solid weeks of my vacation time in a recording studio cutting a full-length cd (I play guitar semi-professionally). Well a few days later I notice my account has been debited by Magnus for my balance owed. So rather than spend another minute on the phone with Magnus I wait for my engine. Steve has my shipping address and my money, so it should be on the way. I let the guy’s in my shipping dept know it should be on its way and to look out for it.
I go into the recording studio from 8/17 until 8/31 for 10+ hrs per day straight thru.
Problem #4
I come back to work on 09/01. No engine yet and no messages from Magnus. Well you know how it is when you take time off from work for a while and come back. So for a couple of days I’m playing “catch up” and getting things back in order, hoping the engine shows up with out me having to call Magnus again. Finally towards the end of the first week of September I call Magnus and Steve answers the phone. I ask Steve why my engine is not here yet. Steve tells me I should have it already. Of course I reply, “Well I don’t!” So Steve tells me he will check on it and call me back. Well this time I do get a call back, and with-in 20 minutes. But I missed it and one of my co-workers took a message for me. So I call Steve back. Steve tells me “It’s sitting in shipping because they need your tax id number”. So my engine, which is paid for, is sitting in shipping for almost a month, because nobody cared enough to call me back and ask for the tax id number. My engine shows up a week later.
Problem #5
No head gasket, what a surprise! Again I get Steve on the phone to find out where my head gasket is. Steve asks me if I was supposed to get a head gasket with my engine. I tell him I ordered it with everything else. I then ask if I was charged for one. I had to ask because this engine and the first one did not come with invoices, I had to get Magnus to fax them to me after receiving my engines. Steve tells me I was not charged for one. So I ask him to charge one to my card and send it out. Steve then tells me they are out of them and it may be a while before they get some more. Backordered! I tell Steve to never mind, I’ll get it some place else. I called Forced Performance; they have it in stock (in fact they tell me they keep all the Cometic head gaskets in stock for DSMs). “Send it to me!” I get it in a couple of days.
Problem #6
I remove the plastic rap from my cylinder head and guess what? IT’S PAINTED SILVER AGAIN!!! I repeatedly requested my head not be painted this time. Steve assured me it was not painted when I paid for it! But wait, there’s something else that’s wrong.
Problem #7 & #8
Where are my double valve springs that are supposed to be on the Stage 3 head? And something else is different; these valves are not the Ferrea valves that are supposed to be in my head. I immediately go to Magnus’ website and sure enough it says the Stage 3 head comes with double valve springs and Ferrea valves. I call Magnus once again. Steve answers the phone. I tell him I think they sent me the wrong cylinder head. He asks why I would think that. I tell him it’s not equipped with the correct components. Steve replies “Let me get Marco for you”. I say ok but catch Steve before he puts me on hold and tell him that my head is painted silver again. Steve gets defensive and says “Bullshit!”
I scraped a little off of the thermostat housing flange with a razor blade. You be the judge.
Looks like paint to me.
So I get Marco on the phone and tell him I believe they sent me the wrong cylinder head. Marco then tells me “It’s a Stage 3 head. That’s all we do these days.” So I tell him I believe it’s the wrong stage head because of the single valve springs and different valves being used. Marco then tells me they switched to the single valve springs because they are better quality and they had problems with the double springs breaking. Plus they were difficult to work with due to being bigger in diameter and getting in the way of the ARP washers & nuts. I could relate to the ARP washer and nut clearance issue from having to deal with that on my first engine. So then I ask what valves are in this head, because they are not the Ferrea valves. Marco tells me they have switched to Supertech valves which he feels are better valves. I can’t tell you from experience if they are better or not. But my biggest complaint about this is that I expect to get what is advertised. Finding out about new/different springs and valves after the head is in my hands is not my idea of good business practice.
1st head
new head
single spring
Problem #9
Now I get ready to start putting the oil pump/front cover assembly on and find the front balance shaft outer bearing insert/plug is missing. Great, can it get any better? So now I have an open oil feed that is not blocked off. The inner bearing insert is there but not the outer one. This short block is supposed to be ready to go and set up for no balance shafts. My first engine had both installed and for the same price paid I expect this one to be the same way. So once again I’m on the phone with Marco. The excuse I get for it not being there is because I opted to assemble my engine myself instead of letting Magnus do it. I opted to assemble my first engine also and it was pre-installed. My response is “It was in my first short block, why would I expect it not to be in this one? Also, if I’m responsible for machine shop type preparations, why is the inner insert installed.” Remember this is an assembled short block. So Marco agrees to machine and send out a plug to block the front outer balance shaft bearing location. I ask Marco what I will need to do to install it. Marco replies “Just put some sealant on it and knock it into position, that’s what we do here”. About a week goes by and no insert plug. I call back and I am told it hasn’t been done yet, But it will get done and shipped out today. I call back 2 days later and get Steve on the phone and I ask where the plug insert is? Steve puts me on hold and then comes back to tell me “Marco just grabbed some material and is running to machine it for you when I told him you were on the phone.” Steve promises me it will go out no later than tomorrow. Well two days later I get the overnight package with the machined plug for the block and front cover (but I only needed the one for the block).
missing insert
Problem #10
I clean the block and plug. I then apply a light film of sealant to the plug and block insert area. I start knocking the plug in taking every effort to make sure it’s going in straight, and it is. We’re doing well now. The plug is going in straight and it has nice tight resistance going in. Just as the plug is in place fully and flush with the front cover surface the outer part of the block CRACKS! Yes CRACKS!
crack
At this point I’m so pissed off that if my mother could hear me she would have me exorcised by a priest! Once again I am on the phone; I get Marco and explain what happened. This is the response I get back, “Why did you put it in if it didn’t fit? You can’t hold me responsible for that.” Now I’m really pissed!! I immediately jump on Marco’s case about how ridicules it is that he blames me for this problem. I reply to Marco “What in the hell did I pay you $4200.00 for this short block for? I expect to get a ready to go, assembled short block. Not a short block that I have to do machine shop type preparations to. For God's sake, I'm over here knocking a block-off plug into an assembled short block.” So Marco asks me to email him the pics of the crack and he will call me back. I get off the phone, send him this email with pics and vent further about the situation.
“Here ya go. The crack goes straight thru to the inside of the block.
You can say what you want, but I paid for this engine to come ready to assemble. I should not have to do work to the block that should have been done in the prep-work prior to assembling the short block. That front plug was installed in my first engine purchase, why would I expect for it not to be in my second engine purchase. If I'm responsible for installing the oil block-off for the front balance shaft bearings, why did you install the inner one in this engine and both in my 1st engine? I have spent $13,500.00 with you in the last year (12 months, take away 3 months for assembling my 1st engine and doing other mods to the vehicle, because it took so long to get what I ordered from you). I doubt anybody has spent that kind of money with you. If they have, more power to them. But to sit there and tell me it's completely my fault is ridicules. You machined the plug for me, it should have fit.”
So after getting Marco on the phone again and re-sending the email due to a problem with the internet, Marco ask me to see if I could have somebody here weld it up? I tell him I don’t know of anybody I would trust or who would know how to weld cast iron and have it hold up. Marco ask me to wait until Tuesday (it’s Saturday when I called) before I do anything because he wants to talk to a somebody he knows about the best way to fix it and he’ll let me know what to do. Well Tuesday passes with no phone call. At this point I really am done with Magnus Motorsports. Well I get on with other things in my life that are a little more pressing at the moment. So on the following Wednesday (8 days after I’m supposed to hear something from Marco) I decide to call Marco to find out what he came up with on his end. Marco tells me he hadn’t heard from me so he figured I had repaired the block already. I would think that Marco should be calling me at this point as soon as he found out what to do. Marco tells me what he feels is the best way to repair the block. He did also offer to help by assisting with the cost of the repair. It’s a nice gesture, but equals out to offering a "Band-aid" to somebody who just had their arm completely ripped out of the socket.
I have built and tuned many race engines from dirt bikes & street bikes, to big and small block Chevy’s, big block Pontiac’s, Oldsmobile’s, etc. from the ground up with bare blocks and components that were machined for me and I assembled myself. I've been involved with several turbo cars also (v-8's and 4 cylinder) for a long time. In my 20+ years of working on cars and building engines, I’ve never encountered this many problems before. I paid the full amount Magnus Motorsports required to get the job done, with no short cutting. Marco did offer a "package deal" on the first purchase and matched the price on the second head and short block. I gladly paid the amounts requested, no questions asked. I even agreed to pay the extra amount for the 1g oil squirters to be installed without saying a word about the price required to do it.
Some may say I was naïve about some of the issues like the knock sensor location or anything else on the Mitsubishi engine, but I went to the “1g 2.4L-LR in a 2g car” people who are known as the “experts”. I asked all the questions that I had concerns about and was given answers for them, whether they were right or wrong.
As far as the phone calls go. If I made ten (10) phone calls to Magnus and was told somebody would call me back, I might get one (1) return phone call. A 10% return call rate is not good in my book, especially when you are spending this much money.
Some may say that I'm really pissed about something else with Magnus Motorsports or that I'm making this up to help and/or promote another shop. But I'm not. Anybody on this forum who really knows me, knows I'm not that type of person. There are several people on this forum whom I talk to regularly and know what's been going on with me, my car and Magnus Motorsports. I just want to share what happened to me so others can make a more informed decision when it comes time for them to spend their hard earned dollars with Magnus Motorsports or anywhere else.
By all means understand that I am not saying "Don't do business with Magnus Motorsports." If you want to do business and spend money with Magnus Motorsports, then please do. I'm sure they make great products. Who knows, this may not be the "norm" for Magnus Motorsports. Maybe I just had really bad luck with them, twice.
In closing I would like to say I've had the crack repaired. And I'm not even worried about submitting the repair bill to Magnus. I just want to get this thing finished. Hopefully it will be fine. And now it's time to get my engine together and in the car. I have no personal grudges with anybody at Magnus Motorsports. And I hope this engine is everything they make it out to be, time will tell.
1ViciousGSX
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