People are IDIOTS! - E85

4g63tcrazy · 10-01-2008

So recently I have been attending UTI in IL and the discussion of E85 has come up a couple of times and these instructors and kids are all fucking idiots. Everybody says "this or that" about it cause that is what they've heard but nobody has any solid facts. Me and my friend have repeatedly told them that you dont have to change out your WHOLE fuel system with these "special" fuel pumps that cost 1million dollars and "special" injectors with "special" seals.. We've told them countless times that you only need to change your injectors and pump to provide more fuel and you will also need a new fuel filter cause E85 will clean out your tank. And of course the editional tuning to provide the extra 30%.

What I need from you guys is ANY hard facts of long term use, dyno proven graph's for more power or anything you guys can come up with of HARD evidence that you dont need all this shit.

Hell, I even told my instructor about how I was able to up my boost and make more power with E85 and he said, "Well once you put it on a dyno and prove it let me know." And of course I have dyno'd my car and have made close to 100hp more to the wheels with it and trap 16mph higher. After I told him that he said that I should be teaching the class... All these kids just stare at me like I'm crazy whenever I talk about it EVEN WITH THE DSM GUYS at the school..

So help me and my friend out and give us some hard evidence!!!

sleepydsm · 10-01-2008

E85 does corrode aluminum and deteriorates rubber. Why? Because of the alcohol in it. Thats why OEMs use stainless hard fuel lines and other such things. But I don't think we'd see the effects of corrosion in a short period of time.

sleepydsm · 10-01-2008

Countless people have used E85 on their DSMs without any major stuff, for a long time now.

turbotalon1g · 10-01-2008

The longest story of using e85 is in a fox body mustang that has used it for over 7 years, no corrosion yet.

My car went from 239hp/high 12s to 294hp/high11s.

awd-drifter · 10-01-2008

my cousin went to UTI in IL and he tells me alot of the DSM guys have no idea what they are doing to their DSMs. And yes, ALOT (99.9%) of the people out there have no fucking clue that E85 is not good for their cars. We are the 1% that actually knows that E85 is dangerous for a car if it does not have the correct applications to have it.

**scheides** · 10-01-2008

The answers you seek and already know to be true are simple and effective
-alcohol absorbs more heat than gasoline. Cooler intake charge = more power
-alcohol has a higher octane than gasoline. Higher octane = more power
-make sure it is clear: dumping it in does not produce these results, it MUST be tuned for the new fuel. 28-30% fuel increase but still tuning to around 12:1 AFR on a gasoline calibrated wideband. More timing. More boost. Cooler intake charge. Cooler cyl temps. Cooler EGT's. It all adds up to more power.

Matt D. · 10-01-2008

Jim (TalonEvo) on here has been running E85 since who knows when in his Evo IX with results that are nothing short of spectacular. Just search for E85 on here and see what you come up with.

4g63tcrazy · 10-01-2008

Yeah I'll be searching on this forum and others I just want as many guys as I can to back us up to show these kids there idiots.

Keep it coming guys! Dyno graphs would be awsome too.

**scheides** · 10-01-2008

Want dyno results? No this is not E85, but how about a shot of denatured alcohol on top of good'ol BP 92 octane. Boost: 25-> 29psi.
timing: 9->16deg.
power: 318whp -> 358whp.
torque: 300wtq -> 348wtq.

more graphs detailing boost, AFR, etc:
http://www.scheides.com/gallery/evo8?page=18

4g63tcrazy · 10-01-2008

Thank you! Now just keep them coming. I wish I could get mine but I left it at home..

**Goat Blower** · 10-01-2008

Different turbos so the comparisons aren't apples to apples, but I used to run 21psi on the street with 92 octane max making about 350whp and now run 30psi daily and make 582 at 32psi on E85, no knock. The horsepower comparisons are no good, but the boost level is.

4g63tcrazy · 10-01-2008

Yeah I saw your dyno sheet on the dyno thread. Pretty damn impressive! My friend will be paypaling you tonight for the pipe. I'll shoot you a pm when he does.

Here's a good link on a corvette using E85 with good results:
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_08...t_results.html

**asshanson** · 10-01-2008

Same here, I used to run at 20psi on pump making ~250whp, now running 28psi and making about 400whp on the same dyno.

4g63tcrazy · 10-01-2008

Those are pretty much the same results I had with the same psi. Although I'm not quite at the 400 mark.

Another link on the evo forums:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=360346

**scheides** · 10-01-2008

LOL this pretty much says it all:

4g63tcrazy · 10-01-2008

HAHA. Now if I show some of these kids this thread there gonna think you actually put a cob of corn in the damn tank.. Thanks ass! lol

SnoEclipse · 10-01-2008

Then there is the greater quenstion on whether or not E85 requires more 'input' (farm fuel, fertilizer, processing, etc) than it returns in 'savings' at the pump.

The (very simple) math says no. There isn't a lot in this world that has a higher energy density than refined crude oil fuels.

dumb_ricer · 10-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4g63tcrazy

So recently I have been attending UTI in IL and the discussion of E85 has come up a couple of times and these instructors and kids are all fucking idiots. Everybody says "this or that" about it cause that is what they've heard but nobody has any solid facts. Me and my friend have repeatedly told them that you dont have to change out your WHOLE fuel system with these "special" fuel pumps that cost 1million dollars and "special" injectors with "special" seals.. We've told them countless times that you only need to change your injectors and pump to provide more fuel and you will also need a new fuel filter cause E85 will clean out your tank. And of course the editional tuning to provide the extra 30%.

What I need from you guys is ANY hard facts of long term use, dyno proven graph's for more power or anything you guys can come up with of HARD evidence that you dont need all this shit.

Hell, I even told my instructor about how I was able to up my boost and make more power with E85 and he said, "Well once you put it on a dyno and prove it let me know." And of course I have dyno'd my car and have made close to 100hp more to the wheels with it and trap 16mph higher. After I told him that he said that I should be teaching the class... All these kids just stare at me like I'm crazy whenever I talk about it EVEN WITH THE DSM GUYS at the school..

So help me and my friend out and give us some hard evidence!!!

It isn't worth arguing with the instructors at UTI 99 percent of the time. Been there, done that.

**Halon** · 10-01-2008

I gained about 80hp just by switching with my old 50 trim setup. Was making 280hp at ~20psi on pump, knocking like crazy. Switched to E85 and made 366 at ~25psi with NO knock. Both done at LSE. My dyno graphs are on here if you search.

Like Scheides said, dumping it in won't net you all this power. You must change your tune accordingly to take advantage of it, and that is when you will see the power gains.

**JET** · 10-01-2008

On the same setup I made 358awhp on pump at 21psi and I made 452 awhp at 28psi on E85.