Difference between mitsu 4g64 and Hyundai 4gcs?

Andrew7dg · 02-25-2008

Just a simple question...

I was just wondering why everyone mentions the g4cs to build when I have been searching for answers. Is it the better of the blocks to use?

I have a 4g64 from an expo and I am pretty sure it is the same block and that it will work for my buildup.

I am about to spend money building this up and I want to make sure that I won't regret this half way through when I find out I have the wrong block...

Another question, has any of the people on this forum had experience with the long rod (156mm) in their build up. I think they are extra money vs the standard 150mm. Supposed to give a better rod ratio but I don't know if it is even worth it.

There has been lots of talk about 2.0 vs 2.4L but from what I have found, the 2.4L has better street manor and better tolerance to detonation from say poor fuel. 2.0L makes a better race motor and hp however I just want to have a fun weekend driver.

Thanks!

**JET** · 02-25-2008

There is an extra oil galley in the 4g64, no biggie though. I wouldn't bother with the long rod, it costs a lot more and the difference is small. You'll be very happy with the 2.4.

Jakey · 02-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

There is an extra oil galley in the 4g64, no biggie though.

I can't recall where, but a couple years ago I read a discussion where there were there a few more differences highlighted. Bearings?

**JET** · 02-25-2008

Goatblower has a 4g64 in his I believe. The only real difference is the extra passage and that you have to tap for the knock sensor. A few don't have the right bung on them either, but most do.

**1ViciousGSX** · 02-25-2008

Actually the log rod (at least in my engine) is 162mm long. If you are going to buy rods & pistons, there is really very little difference in price, if any at all. So why not get the best rod ratio you can?

Andrew7dg · 02-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ViciousGSX

Actually the log rod (at least in my engine) is 162mm long. If you are going to buy rods & pistons, there is really very little difference in price, if any at all. So why not get the best rod ratio you can?

What kind of ratio does that turn out to be?
Where do you find that or who makes that?
I am guessing you use a stroker piston with that rod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakey

I can't recall where, but a couple years ago I read a discussion where there were there a few more differences highlighted. Bearings?

It would be great to post a link to that disscussion. So far it seems like they are equal blocks, cranks are the same.

blageo23 · 02-25-2008

Isnt it a g4cs not a 4gcs?

Andrew7dg · 02-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by blageo23

Isnt it a g4cs not a 4gcs?

You are right, I messed up...

crazy_skier · 02-26-2008

not sure on the differences but my car has one with aroud 15K at this point and it is running excellent with 350 awhp on a dyno dynamics and has been like that the whole time. Just make sure to keep the rpms a little lower but i'm sure you knew that

Jakey · 02-26-2008

This isn't the link I was thinking of but this is an outstanding white paper:
http://www.kidzuku.com/StrokeOrNot.pdf

**1ViciousGSX** · 02-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakey

This isn't the link I was thinking of but this is an outstanding white paper:
http://www.kidzuku.com/StrokeOrNot.pdf

Damn Jakey, I'll need a couple of hours to read that.

Good write-up.

carltalon · 02-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakey

This isn't the link I was thinking of but this is an outstanding white paper:
http://www.kidzuku.com/StrokeOrNot.pdf

I read that a few weeks ago. I dont think I'll ever run a 2.3 or 2.4 after reading that. I wish he'd have done some work with the 2.4 though. I wonder what differences the higher deck hight would have.

Super Bleeder!! · 02-26-2008

Jakey where did you find that? Is this some guys thesis or something?

nevermind - after i read into it i can clearly see it is not.

Jakey · 02-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!

Jakey where did you find that? Is this some guys thesis or something?

nevermind - after i read into it i can clearly see it is not.

I was browsing Toonerz one day and someone had posted a link to the white paper.

Andrew7dg · 02-27-2008

So going back to rod and ratio and differences of the 2.4L block (again just checking all of my options before I go building),

Using a stock rod will give me a 150mm/100mm= 1.5 which is the same as a 2.3 stroker engine. (the article was great info and I am still spending time on reading it but they probably didn't go over a 2.4L because the 2.3 to 2.4 is kind of close).

There is a longer rod out there that will give a 156mm/100mm which gives a 1.56 rod ratio

But a 162mm/100mm= 1.62 from 1ViciousGSX motor is pretty impressive compaired to the 1.7 in our cars right now. This is unless he is running a 2.1 destroked engine which is what I see most engine builders use these 162mm rods for

i can see how switching to a 156mm won't provide impressive gains but going to a 162mm seems pretty impressive. Is it worth going this route to get the extra rod ratio? I don't know if Vicious ever compared the rod ratio of cars to cars but I was just wondering why he went this route.

I am kind of interested in knowing what goatblower is running in his 2.4L motor also.
Who else is running a 2.4L block? What rods/piston setup are they using?

I have a spare 2.0L block for parts and the 4g64 block. I am hoping to get 2 engine stands and put them side by side to compare differences between the two. Should be kind of interesting. Just need one more spare engine stand

**1ViciousGSX** · 02-28-2008

I'm running a 2.4L engine. The 162mm rod is what Magnus was installing in their long rod 2.4L, which sounded good to me. I've got the Ross piston/Pauter rod combo. I take it to 8500rpm a lot of the time, no issues.

The main difference in the 2.0L vs. 2.4L are the lack of oil squirters (my 2.4L does not have them), knock sensor bung not there (although you can use another location on the side of the block), the two (2) small coolant holes are not drilled at the timing belt side of the deck (just drill them) and the 3mm taller deck the 2.4L block has. Other than that, minor differences exist.

Magnus just came out with a 2.2L engine that runs a 94mm crank, "best of both worlds" kind of set-up. With a 162mm rod I'm sure the rod ratio would look really good.

My opinion;
Street/strip car, go 2.3L/2.4L
Strip only car, go 2.0L/2.1L/2.2L

**JET** · 02-28-2008

This has been discussed a long time ago on other boards. On paper the 2.4 doesn't look nearly as good, but in real life the limits shown in the paper seem to be off. The 2.4 can rev higher than most people thought it would. I agree, if the car is going to be run on the street at all, run a 2.4. The spoolup difference is huge as is the torque off boost.

Andrew7dg · 02-28-2008

I just went to magnus website and saw that they are making their own cranks and high grade components.

Something to look at when I actually will build that race motor someday.

Thanks for the responses on this! I know this 2.4 block path has been done quite a bit but for me it is knew and I can't wait to see what this engine is capable of.

So one more question that I have is, what do people recommend for build up?

I have all I need to know about the short block but what does the 2.4L block pair with
Turbo?
Cams? (because of the bigger cams I will upgrade the valve springs and all)

**JET** · 02-28-2008

The turbo basically depends on how much HP you want to have and the spool you want. My SCM61 was a great street turbo. Basically it felt like a 50 trim on a 2.0, but with more power. Spool was very manageable. I am going to go just a little bigger with my next turbo. Cams, just go really big. Mine are pretty big and it idles fine, but lopey.