MY DSM and racing (all types). Please look!!

turbotalon1g · 09-11-2008

Ok, everyone knows that my dsm is a 16G powered fiend that i have been straight line racing for a while, well i feel that the end is near and.
All these years i have been wanting to do auto-x and road racing too.

My question is about setups for each perspective racing types, i want this in order to create a perfect setup for me.

I have been pondering going to a turbo the size of a 35r as far as power goes, but i love the response of the 16g, so until i am sick of it the 16g is staying.

The car currently has AGXs and sportline springs, no strut bars, no upgraded rear sway bar.
Full weight.
235/45/17 pirelli P6s (some all season tire)
Brakes are 1G upgraded aka 2 piston, with drilled & slotted and i believe EBC red pads, brakes are about 50%.

My goal with the car is to have the best street car i can that will allow me to do whatever i want to do with it, whether that is take cross country trips, road race, drag race, street race, auto-x, whatever.
The main thing is that i want the CAR to be good at it.

Plans: i have a SS brake line kit & Alamo rear sway bar to install, i plan on doing K-sports or Megan coilovers this winter and hopefully solid strut tower bars if i can find them, i have heard these are the best kinds to get, but i don't think anyone sells them.
Grant steering wheel and i am keeping PS.

I don't know what my goal is in the 1/4, i just know that i have trapped 120 and that my time of 11.7 shows that i can go quicker at that speed.

Thanks for your time

Aaron

**scheides** · 09-11-2008

I love it. How about some bear big brakes? Not too spendy for just the fronts and they do the work! Or perhaps a brembo conversion off of an evo?

Other than that your plans are on the right path, if you decide you want a little bump in power go up to a 20G but honestly rollin on the 16g is a great all-around and uber-reliable way to go. Cams if you don't already got them!

**Kracka** · 09-12-2008

Baer Track Kit brakes are great, I had them on my 1G. Good summer tires are also important. A new rear anti-sway bar is also a great idea as are the strut tower braces. Don't worry about brand, get some decent adjustable ones on eBay and you'll be set. Another tip is to install the strut bars with the suspension unloaded (i.e. car on jacks) and adjust the bars so they push outwards until they are tight. Stick with the 16G turbo, that is a great all-around street turbo on a DSM.

**JET** · 09-12-2008

The rear sway bar will make a major difference, strut bars help a bit. I would stick with the 2 piston brakes, they are pretty good. The biggest thing i would look at is dumping some weight. That will help you in all aspects. There are quite a few things you can get rid of that you will never even notice.

**asshanson** · 09-12-2008

Care to elaborate on the unnoticed weight reductions? Other than obvious things like removing spare. I think mine is around 3300 with me, I would like to get it down more. Sorry for the thread jack, but I guess it's still relevant.

**Kracka** · 09-12-2008

Bumper supports make a huge difference since that is weight having over the wheels. Get some nice aluminum brackets to take their place.

Matt D. · 09-12-2008

I say stick with the 16G, or maybe something slightly larger to get more power, but that's about all I'd consider doing in your shoes.

Do all the suspension upgrades you want, but you forgot the most important thing from your list: TIRES. For the best performing street tire look at the Falken Azenis RT615 or Dunlop Direzza Z1 (not DZ101, do not make that mistake.) They are usually around $150 a tire but are used in street tire racing classes for a reason. For a less aggressive tire (harder, will last slightly longer but will have less grip) talk to Hughes and Scheides and see what they recommend.

I run the Dunlop Z1 all summer and have no complaints. I will be getting either them or the RT615 next depending on what sizes are available.

turbotalon1g · 09-12-2008

Thanks guys, i have cams right now good 'ole HKS 264/272 (oh the torque!!)

I will be picking up some megan strut tower bars i like the look of them.
I currently have an aluminum bumper up front, but i think i will be making some custom supports because its scary to drive on the street.

A lot of people have been telling me that the two pot brakes are good but i can say stopping from 110+ doesn't feel that great i mean it could be with any car, but i know that i would like a bit more authority/power when it comes to stopping, i am gonna take it step by step, do the lines, drain the fluid and see how it goes.

Kracka, i have heard about this installing the twoer bar in the air, from what i saw people said put it in the air, then snug down the outside bolts, then lower and install the inside bolts as it will help exert an outward force on teh car.

JET, stop by sometime and feel free to point out some things i could lose, but to be honest while i understand weight loss is a good/big part of it, i really want a complete street car and right now i don't see what else i can do.

turbotalon1g · 09-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

I say stick with the 16G, or maybe something slightly larger to get more power, but that's about all I'd consider doing in your shoes.

Do all the suspension upgrades you want, but you forgot the most important thing from your list: TIRES. For the best performing street tire look at the Falken Azenis RT615 or Dunlop Direzza Z1 (not DZ101, do not make that mistake.) They are usually around $150 a tire but are used in street tire racing classes for a reason. For a less aggressive tire (harder, will last slightly longer but will have less grip) talk to Hughes and Scheides and see what they recommend.

I run the Dunlop Z1 all summer and have no complaints. I will be getting either them or the RT615 next depending on what sizes are available.

Thanks, i know that i need to run a real tire, its seems like everytime i need to buy them i am in a squeeze for money and i find a really good deal, mine are practically new for $60 for 4.
i was looking at the dunlops before though, i hope next time i will get a real tire.
I will be sticking with the 16G for the next year unless something happens to it, i still have a huge boost leak at the TB that leaks at 10psi like crazy (on a boost leak test) so i think that i will feel a diff. once that is fixed. Hopefully i will have it done this weekend.

OH, about strut tower bars, there are some that are U-shaped (have 3 holes) and some that are a quarter-circle(have 2 hole) on the brackets that bolt to the shock tower, is there a better one to have?
I would think the 3 hole would be better because it attaches to the car in more places.

**scheides** · 09-12-2008

MattD brings up a great point. For the most performance, tires are hands down the BEST bang for your buck you can get. I decided to go for a little harder tire that will last longer (I commute 50 miles/day) and went with Bridgestone RE750's. They are an amazing all-around summer tire, and I can drive them Early spring to late fall with no issues, and I have two full seasons out of them now. Just what I wanted.

Hughes went with the sumitomo HTRZIII this spring, I gotta say they are prolly gonna be my next tire. Way cheaper than the RE750's, a tad softer/grippier, but still in the hardness category I want for longevity.

So ya, keep tires at the top of your list. All too often I see 400whp DSM's running around with massive bulges in their tires or bald-ass dried up crap. Keep your rubber happy!

**scheides** · 09-12-2008

The more I think about it the more I'd like to encourage the big brake kit or even doing a brembo conversion. DSM brakes were always 'decent' but never amazing. The brakes on my 2G downright sucked, even with nice pads and rotors.

Come drive my car and take it from 100-0 once, you'll want the brembos. With a nice pad and SS lines....drool....I love 'em!

**Kracka** · 09-12-2008

Your turbo/cam combo sounds good, stick with that.

Scheides is right about thr brakes, I've never felt the 2-pistons with pads/rotors were even near "competition ready" as I'll call it. Those 13" Baer Track Kit brakes I had were awesome for the money since the kit came with calipers, SS lines, rotors, pads, and hardware.

The kit I am talking about: http://www.maperformance.com/baer-cl...em-1g-dsm.html

Regarding tires, I could not be happier with my Sumitomo HTRZIII's. They have very good grip, they are great in the rain, and after 3 auto-x events they are still wearing nicely. I was going to go with the Bridgestone Potenza RE750's like I put on my S2k and recommended to Scheides but they stopped making them (since been replaced by the RE760 Sports which are also supposed to be even better than the 750's, but not yet available early this spring). I started looking around at other tire options and saw that Sumitomo had this new tire out and figured I would give it a try since it was fairly untested at that point but I loved the Sumitomo HTRZII's that I had on my DSM.

**Kracka** · 09-12-2008

The strut bars I would buy:

front: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-94...spagenameZWDVW

rear: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-94...spagenameZWDVW

I have an eBay front on Janelle's WRX and an eBay rear on my Evo. Both were cheap as heck but they are nice pieces.

**scheides** · 09-12-2008

Goddamn that baer kit looks like a good deal. Are those 2-pot or 4-pot calipers?

I had that front strut tower bar on my 1G and got one for my 2G, they are an amazing little mod (seriously).

Also if you don't have one already, a nice stereo is an awesome way to stay in love with any street car (esp a fast dsm!). Some nice components up front and a decent 10" sub in the back....a nice amp and a decent deck to run it all....ugh, really good for the soul (just like WOT!).

MustGoFaster · 09-12-2008

Start on the driver mod NOW. It takes time. (unless you just got mAd sKiLz) You don't need this that and the other thing to come drive. All you need is a car that is in good mechanical condition. You don't need the best tires, suspension or the most power. Not to say they won't make you faster, but the driver mods takes time. You can't just bolt it on. Wanna borrow some books? I have a couple. I started with a stock turbo, fuel and suspension car, just get out and drive! Don't let modding the car get in the way of the true purpose of the car, DRIVING it. I read your post, you want the car to be good at it. You might as well be good at it too!

Start here, same price as a trip to rock falls.

http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/...sevent_id=9450

Good brakes are a good idea.
Stay with the 16G if your going to auto X.
Tires- been covered, you know what to do. Get wide ones if you can, more tire helps a lot.
Suspension- Your pointed in the right direction already. Ksports/ Megan isn't the worlds best stuff, but still controls the weight a lot better than stock stuff.
Power steering- Look at the VFAQ and do the mod they suggest for the power steering. I tend to out run my pump and need to do it as well, it can make things difficult.

Matt D. · 09-12-2008

Keep in mind that the treadwear rating of the tires they mentioned are in the 300-340 range. The tires I mentioned are 200. (Racing slicks are 40 treadwear, very soft.) These tires should last me through this year and maybe the beginning of next. The end of this year will mark 17 autocross events (6-8 runs each) and probably close to 20,000 miles of driving. They're at about 4/32 right now (measured them a week ago) and I flipped them side to side a month ago after getting my suspension installed.

While driving on the street you will not notice much if any difference between say a Falken RT615 and a Sumitomo HTRZIII. But once you start pushing the tire to the limit that's where the softer more aggressive tire will shine.

While I'm not trying to sway you from saving some money by buying a tire that will last longer, I feel you should buy a tire that will keep up with and make the most of anything you ever expect to throw at it.

Also, run the widest tire you can. The more rubber on the ground, the more traction you'll have. Your Evo wheels are great, you can fit 255/40/17s on there. Look at 17x9 wheels and you can fit 275s. I'm unsure what wheel and tire clearance is like on a DSM, but it really is something to consider.

Matt D. · 09-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustGoFaster

Start on the driver mod NOW.

Best mod ever, hands down, no questions asked. Hughes will agree.

**Kracka** · 09-12-2008

The driver mod is really important; everyone thinks they're hot shit on the streets but when you start driving at the limit it really separates people. Take Chris Deutsch for example, I'm sure I'd be able to hang with him on the streets, but on the auto-x track forget it...he has way less power than I do but I can't even come close to touching him (riding along with him is great education though).

I will agree about the softer tires really shining at the absolute limit; Matt's tires will still grip when mine begin to let go. With that said, considering the amount of driving I do, I'm very happy I have 300 treadwear tires. You just need to weigh all the facts and figure out the one that fits your lifestyle the best. I am kind of wishing I would have done a 245 width tire on my Evo instead of 235's though; but I expect these tires to last me 3 summers so I won't be changing that any time soon.

dsm9sec · 09-12-2008

If I were you Aaron, I'd throw in some Hawk pads and just go run it as it is now. You already have a decent platform to start on.

sleepydsm · 09-12-2008

Going to a coilover setup on a 1G dramatically increases the inside of the tire to suspension clearance. I'm pretty sure you could run a different offset/wider wheel with coilovers installed.

I have a ST rear sway bar on my 1G, the car under hard cornering still plows traight (understeer). My car is probably too low, I wanna say the active toe in the back is hurting me a lot. So with my car low, it has some pretty negative camber, and I'm sure the rear toe is F-ed.

I also run 300 treadwear BFG KDW2 (Which are supposed to have some of the best Dry grip in this treadwear range)

I have the "1g big brakes" with stainless lines and axxis ultimates. I still don't feel like they do good enough job braking from high mph.

I too am looking for solid strut bars, I might have to end up maing some. I'd prefer a triangulated one for the front. I do understand that the strut bar alone can affect what class you race in for autox.