Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

ARP is very specific with their torque specs using moly lube or oil. Where's their torque spec for using Loctite? ARP's are designed to have a certain amount of stretch to hold properly, I'd be interested to know exactly how different that would be using Loctite.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

You put Loctite on the threads in the block, not on the threads sticking out. You put the lube only on washers, nuts and threads on the head side. On some cars that have the head bolt holes going into the water jacket, you need to use something like Loctite or RTV on that side of the stud to seal it.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

I will throw my opinion in here, take it for what you want. I don't lock tite them in and have never had one back out. We are talking specifically about the 4G63 here so the water jacket sealing doesn't matter for this app. I turn them in all the way in after making very sure the hole is clean. I tighten them in the hole as well. There is no reason not to do this, the stud will not crack the block and to maintain the torque spec, the stud should be very secure in the block. The use of locktite at that point is not necessary, it probably won't hurt anything however it will make the studs more difficult to get out and there will be residue in the hole for the next time. The use of moly lube on the threads and nut bottoms was mentioned and should always be done. This BTW is the way most every performance based machine shop I know installs head studs some with over 50 years experience.

As for the torque spec and sequence, if you torque the heads on tighter than necessary with a motor that hasn't been torque plated for that spec, you are making your cylinders more out of round at the top where it matters most. Don't over torque them. We go 100 but only on motors that are done with a torque plate at that spec. Otherwise, the rest get torqued based on what they are 6 bolt, 7 bolt, gasket type etc. As shane mentioned, with certain gaskets, retorque may not be required. I always do at 100 miles, but it isn't always necessary. Depends on the case at hand.

Also I know there are enough "let er buck" type mechanics on here that will say that torque plates are not a big deal and you can torque your studs to rediculous specs and honestly you will probably get away with it. But are you making the power consistantly that you would be if your cylinders were still actually round all other factors equal?

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

ARP makes the undercut versions of their studs also, which are meant to pull down on the head once torqued down and are less likely to need re-torqueing.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

This turned into quite a topic. I put the head on NOT using locktite. I did a 45-60-75 as recommened by JET(Thanks). I will retorque after a hundred miles or so. I think if ARP wanted you to use locktite they would tell you. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to use it, I just don't prefer to do it. I would imagine that if you were to ever take the head off again, you would have to run a tap thru the stud holes to clean the locktite crap out otherwise you could get false torque readings?

PS- I also sprayed 2 coats of copper spray on my new OEM stock headgasket and then put the head on.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

The other thing to pay attention to as far as over torque goes. The torque specs given by ARP are based on 75% of the yield strength of the fastner. At 110lbs, you are pretty much at the point of stretching a 12mm stud.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

Guys- why is it that they want you to only finger tight them? I moly'd the heck out of everything, threads, washers, nuts, my hands in the process. When i was torque'n them down it was hard to tell if the stud was going in any further than my finger tight was.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

Hopefully you didn't do what I did and used moly lube on where the stud goes into the block. I found out that wasn't so good, luckily it was caught before my head lifted off the block.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

When I just did mine Nash and I just finger tightened them into the block and then tightened them with a allan wrench until the were firmly seated into the block but not really tight either. Then used molly lube on the nuts and torque to spec and then retorqued after a week of driving. I don't see lock-tite as a bad idea but I don't you have to do it other wise ARP would suggest it I would think.

CRAIG

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

I used moly lube on both ends of the studs. The little pamplet that came with the ARP said to lube all threads, washers and nuts. Huh??????

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

I have never heard of people lubing the threads that go into the block.

CRAIG

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

Just got off the phone with a good friend that runs a 850HP Hemi. I found that he does the same thing i did, lube both ends of the stud, the washers and the nuts. He said there is nothing wrong with lubing both ends of the studs. I think if the directions said not to lube the block thread part, it would say. I can call ARP to confirm but i don't think there is a reason too. He also said before i put the valve cover back on to recheck the torque once more because they may settle.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

You should not lube the end that goes in the block. You guys are argueing saying that ARP doesn't say whether to use loc-tite or not, yet almost all of you tightened your studs into the block. ARP specifically says not to do that, only finger tighten them. Part of the problem with just tightening them is that there may me a little something trapped in the bottom of the hole and it doesn't seep past the threads until later. Then you have a loose stud in there that you thought was bottomed out. With loc-tite even if it isn't bottomed out, the loc-tite will still hold it in place.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

Ok- just to clarify i brought my sheet in with me.

[3] a. If cylinder head studs protrude into water jacket, lubricate the block threads of the studs with ARP THREAD SEALER.
b. If cylinder head studs protrude in blind hole, lubricate the block threads of the studs with ARP ASSEMBLY LUBRICANT or 30wt motor oil.
c. Screw studs into the block "HAND TIGHT ONLY".
Note: LOCTITE MAY BE USED IF A PERMANENT MOUNTING OF THE STUDS IS PREFERRED. THE FASTENERS HOWEVER, MUST BE TORQUED PRIOR TO THE LOCKTITE SETTING UP.

PRELOAD (TORQUE) RECOMMENDATIONS:
[A] Torque valvues are based on 75% of the fasteners yield strength. Use the manufactures torque sequence but do not use the engine manufacturers torque specs. Torque the nuts to 70ft lbs for ARP MOLY ASSEMBLY LUBRICANT (or ARP THREAD SEALER) or 85ft lbs. with 30wt motor oil.
[B] Due to the expansion rateof aluminum, it is recommended that the torque should be 65 ft lbs with ARP MOLY ASSEMBLY LUBRICANT (or ARP THREAD SEALER)


So.... JET is right about the Loctite. It "IS" an option. Our studs protrude into a blind hole. It's an oil hole but the thread hole itself is a blind hole. There is nothing wrong with using MOLY LUB on the lower threads. READ the directions.

The only part i'm confused about is where the 90 to 110 ft comes in. I don't understand where that comes into play. I read nothing about them torque specs. Is that something that one guy tried, then another, and another or what? Let's say you are at 75 ft lbs. and that is 75% of the fasteners yield strength. So if you were at 100ft lbs, you'd be at a 100% strength. So isn't that getting close to where the bolt would 'snap'?

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

100ft-lbs is a bit excessive. 85 ft-lbs should be good enough, but most peopel will go 90-95 ft/lbs for the hell of it.

The main problem with putting moly-lube on the thread in the block is that it can get trapped under the studs on our blocks and cause problems. You only have to go finger tight because a stud will do fine as long as it have plenty of threads to hold onto. And you don't want to tighten the stud on it's own down so far that it the bottom of the bolt hole causes some kind of sideways force of the stud.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

I agree on everything you say. -AND- When i put moly on the lower threads i didn't smear so much on that you couldn't even see the threads. I did just did enough to apply a light film of it. I think it's more of an anti-seize than anything.

I'm just gonna stop worrying about it. It's bolted down. I'm gonna retorque after i get some miles on it to about 80-85lbs and be done with it. I worry too much. I just gotta get the dam car going. Now it's the Magnus/Battery and IC piping problem. Somebody was right on here. For ever 1 project you do, it yields about 5 more projects in return.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

Anyone have a 6 bolt stud out of the motor? I am curious as to how long the threaded section is on them. I would check but all of mine are installed at the moment.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

I always used a little bit of oil on the threads going into the block and tightened them finger tight. When you torque down the nuts, the studs turn a bit as well tightening them into the block.

I'm positive ARP's old directions called for 110 lb/ft with 30wt oil in our application, and I know it didn't have anything about loc-tite. They've obviously changed their direction sheet in recent years. My new motor is torque plated to ARP's standard spec.

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

Hah, sure enough, my memory serves me right. I just pulled the direction sheet from two separate boxes of ARP studs. Both say 80 ft/lbs with their moly and 120 ft/lbs with 30wt oil. I knew I didn't pull that number out of my ass when I used to do this crap more often. I'm puzzled why onefast99gsx's directions were different though, unless he's using 2G studs.

Thankfully I've got plenty of ARP moly laying around now so I can use their lighter specs. ;)

Re: ARP Head bolt install help needed.
 

Hi Goat Blower, Yes, i'm using 2g ARP's. I wrote those directions word for word off the sheet they sent with the studs. I suppose it would depend on the diameter of the head studs. Which stud is bigger, the 1g or the 2g??? If the 2g stud is smaller diameter then that's clearly why the difference in torque specs. I went like 77 or 80lbs and even that was higher than what the sheet said.