Is it me or is the Democratic Party falling apart?

[mdost03]

how would this actually help Americas recession?

Businesses are looking 5-10 years down the road and if these tax cuts expire again in 2 years, it's not really going to help grow the economy. It's just going to be another band aid.

Keep the tax cuts permanent + cut government spending = Win

[Febo]

My point is valid.

I should re-word it to say take less from the general public, and more from the people directly involved. I shouldn't say that anyone should support it, but litterally if the parent's did help out with the cost of education the education itself would be much improved.

How many times have you gotten something for free and showed it the same appreciation as something you paid for?

The cost of education is not cheap. So you are proposing to burden already burdened familys with this cost now? Ok Jake. You do that, let me know how your broke America turns out.

[Febo]

Businesses are looking 5-10 years down the road and if these tax cuts expire again in 2 years, it's not really going to help grow the economy. It's just going to be another band aid.

Keep the tax cuts permanent + cut government spending = Win

But are you looking at the fact that the government itself is bankrupt??

What you are proposing is to try to reduce the deficit by unburdening small bussiness and taxpayers to what avail? Hoping for a trickle up effect?

Fuck it, just let government control an industry and then noone has to pay taxes. Or only has to pay 5%. It has worked for other countries, why not us?

[Febo]

Actually I am going to get into this education bit.

If you are proposing Americans add in more money besides just their tax money into something that is meant to be provided by the government then you really only need to look at most schools these days. Parents end up having to flip the bill for a small bit of stuff.

But by demanding that people pay for what they use, or basing the education off of what the parents can put in then you are setting the country up for failure.

What will happen is you will end up establishing a social elite in the country. Much like times of old. This will only further the gap between well to do and impoverished. By furthering this gap you will only increase the dissent amongst the ranks and this will ultimately fail the country and bring down this nation. Much like the Roman Empire.

You may think that is drastic, but it is very real. Ignorance is one of the greatest enemies this nation has. Ignorance of politics, ignorance of science, ignorance of culture, ignorance of just being a decent human being.

The education system is something that NEEDS reform, and NEEDS funding no matter what. If we continue to slip on this area this nation will go nowhere fast. Even faster than it is right now.

"An educated population is a hard population for a government to control."
^ This statement.... This is just... Wow. If this was true then this wouldn't be the case...
"Newsweek's cover story this week is "The World's Best Countries." Topping that list is Finland, which is also the top ranked country in education. Second is South Korea; the magazine credits its "focus on education" for lifting it from a nation as rich as Afghanistan in the 1960s to third on its list of "economic dynamism."

How could a country prosper like that if an educated population is hard to control. Quite the opposite, and educated population is a population that is richer, more successful, more competitive on the global market, promotes less crime, and is all around more productive.

How could any of this equate to bad for the government? It can't. Please do not confuse educated with paranoid.

[polishmafia]

All I'm going to say is that Febo has caught the fire. *Single tear* Its good to see you finally taking an interest, or rather expressing it. All of your questions are valid, and this is the path you take to enlighten yourself to what is going on with our government, our economy, our lives.

Keep asking questions. Its the only way you will ask yourself more important questions. :)

[Febo]

I've always been opinionated Pete haha. I just would keep it on the DL. But so far this has been some decent debating. Noone has called me a liberal faggot or anything yet so its good.

[goodhart]

Because techers are underpaid and the gov is cutting spending on the schools and matterials?

Juuust though I'd point this out. Oh the irony.


:joint2:


Carry on. :D

[mdost03]

But are you looking at the fact that the government itself is bankrupt??

What you are proposing is to try to reduce the deficit by unburdening small bussiness and taxpayers to what avail? Hoping for a trickle up effect?

Fuck it, just let government control an industry and then noone has to pay taxes. Or only has to pay 5%. It has worked for other countries, why not us?

If the government is bankrupt, they should not be spending as much. Simple as that. Cut spending, cut taxes, let American people keep more of their money so they can do what they want with it instead of government thinking they know what is best for all of us.

[Febo]

If the government is bankrupt, they should not be spending as much. Simple as that. Cut spending, cut taxes, let American people keep more of their money so they can do what they want with it instead of government thinking they know what is best for all of us.

Heres the issue. I agree with cutting spending on certain programs.

Here is where your logic continues to fail.

The government is bankrupt. BANKRUPT. What does this mean? It means it has an enormous DEBT that needs to be PAID and it does not have ENOUGH CASH flowing in.

How does the government get its cash flow. THROUGH TAXES.

Seriously, how is this so hard to grasp? I have used metaphors that anyone could understand.

Again, imagine YOU are bankrupt and are going to lose your sweet SRT-4. What would you do to pay off the debt owed so you can keep your car?

If you say "well I would work more" or "find a better paying job" or "work two jobs" or anything to that effect, then you have totally went against your logic for the government in every way. The government NEEDS taxes to operate. By giving money to the people you will help stimulate the economy, but you will still lynch the government on repaying its debt by cutting taxes.

In the short term we need to keep taxes constant, cut spending, and try to pay down this debt once and for all.

Again, if paying taxes does not sit well for you, then give the government an industry so they can make money. If you do not want to do either of those. Then I would like to hear your alternative. Because "Cutting taxes and smaller government" is not going to fix the pickle we are in.

I'm going to hold on to the soap box for awhile.

[1ViciousGSX]

Febo, how does the government get taxes??? Think about it.

The government gets them through sales taxes, but when people can't afford to purchase items they want the government loses that tax revenue. No sales = no sale tax collected. Although sales tax is mostly on the state level, they're going bankrupt too.

The government gets them through income taxes, but if people don't spur a healthy economy by doing and buying the things they want, income levels (both corporate and individual) come down and so does income tax revenue. But how can you spur an economy when all you go is go from pay check to pay check because of low wages and/or high taxes, high government imposed fees, etc.?

If the government is given control over all of our money, they will be picking the winners and the losers, and some of this is already happening. You think you'll rep the benefits of it, or only the elite with ties to politicians and lobbyist?

Look at history, has our government been good stewards of our money? Why give them more to throw away. You want to raise the income level for the government?? Then raise the living standards of the populous, not take more away from them.

Stop making the bottom 40% tax exempt and make everybody who earns something pay something in. Stop all of the socialist programs and make everybody responsible for their own lives.