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Old 10-06-2004   #1
SlowWhite
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How are you supposed to mount 5-6point harness's?

I know the Shoulder straps go to the harness bar on the roll Cage. But is it Safe to mount the Lap belts to the Stock Locations?

What do you do for the 5th or 6th point?
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Old 10-06-2004   #2
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I talked to the NHRA tech guys about this since the rulebook isn't very detailed. You can mount the two points in the original lap belt location. There is some info on the submarine belt in the rulebook as far as geometry goes from what I remember. To mount it, sandwich it with heavy "3/16" or so pieces of metal on each side of the floor like washers and use a good through bolt with a nyloc or lock washer. You could probably use a couple of the thick washers that retain the crank timing gear on the front case for our engines. They are certainly more than thick enough.
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Old 10-06-2004   #3
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If you can use the factory points it is best. Sometimes with plates and washers you can rip the floor open like a tin can. I use a plate and washer stack for my 6 points. There is a new belt design out that uses the lap belt mounts for the submarine as well. This is the design I would go with if you are buying new belts. It takes more of the pressure of the pelvice in a crash.

IIRC you want to use grade 5 bolts to hold it down. Grade 8 have a higher rating for stretch strength, but are far worse when it comes to shear streght.
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Old 10-06-2004   #4
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To avoid the possibility of the washers ripping through the floor, the bigger the surface area of the metal you use to sandwich it, the less chance that will happen. You are pretty limited with that particular belt though. There are braces that go under the floor there that are in the way of course.
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Old 10-06-2004   #5
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Can someone post pictures of the 5th-6point mounts?

for reference sake I'm buying the sparco racing camlock harness's. and I'm debating on 5 or 6 point. I think more is better but since I've never actually used a 5 point system I don't know what the 5th point feels like.

Sparco Sells a Mounting Plate, along with some Harness bolts.
http://www.sparcousa.com/harness_comp.asp?...e=2&helmetType=

What do you think about there mounting stuff? Any recommendations?
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1997 GSX - new ride
1997 GSX - dedicated track car
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1992 GSX - sold
1996 GST - sold
1995 GSX - sold
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Old 10-06-2004   #6
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There mounting stuff is good. You still need to come up with the ancor point though. A five point goes straight through the sack and a 6 pulls it more twards the sides and spreads it out a little more. I've got sixes mounted if you want to come up and try them out.
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Old 10-07-2004   #7
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If my seats dont' have the slots for the 5th point. Can I just run them over the front of the seat? or what do you do then?
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1997 GSX - new ride
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1996 GST - sold
1995 GSX - sold
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Old 10-07-2004   #8
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The real and sucky answer is you shouldn't run them. They are very dangerous if not properly installed.

With your factory three point belts when you get into a forward crash all of your momentum is going forward. As you are moving forward your chest belt sinches down on your lap belt and holds you into place. With harnesses you don't get the sinching. You go forward into your belts. One you hit them you still have more force to burn off and it converts you into sliding under your belts. Just imagine watching the dummies and how when they hit they pivot at the waiste from the lap belt. Harnesses do't do that. I don't know if I illustrated that very well but I hope you get my point. If you mount them around the seat that is too much slack and you will break your pelvis and poss crush the bottom of you spine.

You need an anti-submarine belt and a proper seat if you are going to where harnesses. That is why the four points are only sold for autocross use. Low speeds and no crashing, but the help hold you in for cornering and stopping.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I have seen the videos and safty seminars. Not pretty. Even worse is what happens to your head when it hits roll bars unprotected. You guys are using the hard padding with the safty rating and not just that cheep spongey stuff right?
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Old 10-07-2004   #9
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Well that's what I wanted to hear - Safety is a big consern of mine especially with the amount of Hp I plan to have along with the type of racing I plan to be doing.

I will be retaining my stock Seat belts for Daily driving use, but I need to have harness's as I will hopefully be doing the AARRF Events next year as well as the 1/4.

I just checked sparco's site I don't see any seats with the whole for the 5th-6th Belt? Maybe it's just the agle of the pictures, but anrate is there something special you have to do to the seat to run a 5th or 6th point? Or can you simply just cut a hole in the seat, or have a 5th point hole installed by the local appolstry shop?
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1997 GSX - new ride
1997 GSX - dedicated track car
2004 R6 - sold
1992 GSX - sold
1996 GST - sold
1995 GSX - sold
Best 1/4 - 11.7 on 93oct
Best 1/4 MPH - 120mph
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Old 10-07-2004   #10
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To be honest I couldn't tell you for sure about cutting a hole through. I would think you could. The seats and belts work as two separate things durrind a crash. The belts keep you from going forward and help hold you in the seat. The seat keeps you safe in rearward and side impacts. I don't believe cutting a hole through the seat could hurt it unless it was a structural part that caused the seat to colapse in an accident.

Sparco seats definately come with the hole. Maybe not some of there reclinable ones, but any with a SFI or FIA safty rating will (should) have a hole. Give them a call and ask to be sure.
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Old 10-07-2004   #11
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Damn the only ones with the FIA stamp are the "Competition" Seats.

And I'd have to sell both my seats and my Mounts - Cause the competition seats use "Side" Mounts and not the adjustable/sliding ones like I have.

AARRRGGEE more $$$$$


What is the general Run down on Rules For Cages, Harness's for 1/4 and AARRF type events?
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1997 GSX - new ride
1997 GSX - dedicated track car
2004 R6 - sold
1992 GSX - sold
1996 GST - sold
1995 GSX - sold
Best 1/4 - 11.7 on 93oct
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Old 10-08-2004   #12
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Also anyone have comments on what to look for in Racing seats? Besides Light weight?

I'm not sure which ones to go with. But primarly thinking under $600ea Range.


My Torino's are:
TUV Homologated
Tested and Approved to
ECE 17 (Europe) and
FMVSS 208 (USA)

What does that mean? Is this something like the FIA Homologated?
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1997 GSX - new ride
1997 GSX - dedicated track car
2004 R6 - sold
1992 GSX - sold
1996 GST - sold
1995 GSX - sold
Best 1/4 - 11.7 on 93oct
Best 1/4 MPH - 120mph
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Old 10-08-2004   #13
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The wold of comp seats. Non reclining, non sliding, but tested to make sure the don't snap of in up to a 60g impact.

The biggest thing to look for is fit. The difference between an EVO I and an EVO II is the width. Other seats are much deeper, some closer to what a good stock sport seat is. There are also different types of head restraints. There is a guy down in Bloomington? that sell seat and safty gear over the internet and also locally to racers. He has more seats instock than anyone else around. I will find out his contact info and try to put it up within a day. Go over there and sit in a bunch. He would also be a good resource on putting stuff together safely.

P.S. You should be close to a decent pair at $600.
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Old 10-08-2004   #14
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TUV is a german road standard. My wheels have a TUV number. The rest are probably government road standards. Means they are a safe factory replacement.

FIA is a sanctioning body (F1, WRC, carts) they have there own standard that is much higher than road.

Almost forgot 1/4 and AARF. 1/4, I don't know. AARF you need a secure battery, and nothing in the interior than can fly around. Stock seats and belts are fine.
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Old 10-08-2004   #15
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Well there is 1 seat that I can get that will allow me to retain the Seat Mounts I already have.

the Sparco Pro2000 looks like it uses the same under seat mounts like my torino's.
http://www.sparcousa.com/pseats_comp.asp?id=89

And is FIA Certified. I wish it showed weather or not it has the 5th Slot.

I know AARRF aren't as stricked but I want to use a 5 or 6 point harness for racing. And I know you need to have them for 1/4 racing once you hit a certain ET.

And only for that reason do I want to get the correct seats to run them. Like you said it's not safe to use a harness with out that 5th or 6th point.

and I really don't feel like cutting up my Torino's.


here's the seating Run down. Looks like they only weigh 16lbs vs 36lbs like my torino's.
http://www.sparcousa.com/Seat_Dim_Guide.pdf
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1997 GSX - new ride
1997 GSX - dedicated track car
2004 R6 - sold
1992 GSX - sold
1996 GST - sold
1995 GSX - sold
Best 1/4 - 11.7 on 93oct
Best 1/4 MPH - 120mph
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Old 10-11-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by 520Talon@Oct 8 2004, 08:15 AM
There is a guy down in Bloomington? that sell seat and safty gear over the internet and also locally to racers. He has more seats instock than anyone else around. I will find out his contact info and try to put it up within a day. Go over there and sit in a bunch. He would also be a good resource on putting stuff together safely.

P.S. You should be close to a decent pair at $600.
Any Updated? I've been reading on DSMLINK forums about seats as well.

And from the sounds of it due to my size/Weight I should try out seats first before purchase.

The Evo 2 are wide enough but someone mentioned that they don't clear the door panels so the doors don't close.....I think I need to go on a diet.
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1997 GSX - new ride
1997 GSX - dedicated track car
2004 R6 - sold
1992 GSX - sold
1996 GST - sold
1995 GSX - sold
Best 1/4 - 11.7 on 93oct
Best 1/4 MPH - 120mph
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Old 10-11-2004   #17
520Talon
 

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Sorry, went out of town for the weekend to visit my brothers. Moving back to AZ for a job and wanted to see them. I will find out and get back.

7200 Hudson Blvd.
Suite 165
Oakdale, MN 55128

Phone: (800)375.3942
Fax: (651)735.7465
Email: sales@apexspg.com

I've worked with Jim at APEX SPG Racing (near junction of 94 and 694/494 near Oakdale). I recommend calling him first as he travels to races towards the end of the week. He's helped me out quite a bit in the last couple of months, knowledgable and friendly. If you do contact him, please let him know that Dan Goldman referred you as I've promised him I'd spread the word. No, I'm not getting a cut, but I'd like to help him out for all of the time he spent with us.

Later,
Dan


www.motorsportseats.com - He's local and has a decent selection of
demo seats. He offered to let me test fit in my car, even. Nice guy.

Theres what I got back from my racing community.
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Old 10-12-2004   #18
SlowWhite
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thanks for the help.
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1997 GSX - new ride
1997 GSX - dedicated track car
2004 R6 - sold
1992 GSX - sold
1996 GST - sold
1995 GSX - sold
Best 1/4 - 11.7 on 93oct
Best 1/4 MPH - 120mph
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