SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!

[iroc_g]

RESULTS: http://64.23.101.235/Iroc_g/SMIM.htm

I recently bought a old style JMF Race mani from Swifty1638 (great guy) from this board. As I have flow bench at work, we decided to make sure there were no flow issues with the manifold. Sorry to say, there were. And Im not mad at Swifty or bashing him in any way. He didn't know, and I dont think anybody else knew about the problem either.

I don't want to post any numbers up yet, but needless to say, I was less than impressed.

So, here is what I want to do; not only for myself, but the rest of the DSM community. I want to compare every SMIM I can, so we all can see which is the best. Now, I can't afford to buy one of each and test them. What I'm hoping is that all of the members here that have a SMIM would be willing to part with it for a few days so I can test it. Im not going to charge anybody a dime to flow their manifold. In fact, if my boss wants to charge me to test all of these, Im going to pay it myself.

So. Calling all SMIM owners! Below is a list of all the manifolds I want to test. If I'm missing one, please let me know and Ill add it to the list.

JMF Street (old style)
JMF Race (old style) Iroc_g TESTED
JMF Street (new Style)
JMF Race (new style)Halon TESTED
JMF Drag
Magnus Street (W/ Stacks) Blageo23 TESTED
Magnus Race
Magnus Street (W/O Stacks) Iceminion
Forester
AMS
Venom 95talonracer TESTED
Slowboy
Beyond Redline Race VENDOR!!!
LSE Intake PushIt2.0 TESTED


All the manifolds should be for a 6bolt head. In order to make this easier, the SMIM can have ANY TB flange. I am going to make a reducer, so all manifolds will be tested at a 1g throttle body opening size.

I know FFWD has been working on doing this for quite some time. But, I hope that locally, we can do it much faster.

I live in Apple Valley, and work in burnsville. Anybody willing to get me there SMIM to test will get it back in no more than a few days. If the situation needed, I could test it the same day I got it, so you wouldn't miss it for more than a day. It would be nice to have a couple days so im not rushing things though.

Help me out. I want to put together a comprahensive list of all SMIM information, so everybody will be able to choose the best SMIM they can.

[Swifty1638]

i heard the numbers and was not happy. As far as we know magnus is the only ones who test theirs. And i also think ams. I'm also in on this as it would be interesting. I'll be throwing my Jmf drag mani up (currently on brent's car) when i get it. I'll also donate my stock intake mani for base numbers. i'd also like to see the new Jmf mani with their c n c velocity stacks. other manifold to include are BJ Forrester slowboy venom etc.

[turbotalon1g]

I was gonna say I have an extra stock one for baseline. Also put this up nationally to get some more sent in.
Thank you for doing this and good luck.

[Halon]

I have a 1G New Version Race JMF I could let you borrow. Flanged for 1G TB. How long do you think you'd have it? I have some time as my car is down, but I'd want it back in a reasonable amount of time.

My main concern is that I don't really know you, so I'm nervous about lending out something like this as it wasn't a cheap part.

[iroc_g]

Originally Posted by Halon

I have a 1G New Version Race JMF I could let you borrow. Flanged for 1G TB. How long do you think you'd have it? I have some time as my car is down, but I'd want it back in a reasonable amount of time.

My main concern is that I don't really know you, so I'm nervous about lending out something like this as it wasn't a cheap part.

Halon:

I understand that I am a relative unknown here. That was the main reason I asked swifty to chime in on this as well. He and I have been talking a lot lately about this and other DSM related things.

I could have it ready to go back to you the next day if need be!

Here's a little background on me:

Ive owned my 2g eclipse for 5 years now, but only driven it for about a year and a half. It was bought as an ex-drag car from pennsyvania. It was nothing more than a shell at that time. I spent 2 years scraping together the cash and parts to get it street legal and complete. Then, after only 2 months of driving, the transmission have up. So, it sat for annother 2 years as I was completely boke from buying a house and feeding my wife and son.

This summer, My daily driver (Pontiac GTP) blew up. Too much boost i think!!! So my boss lent me the money to buy my transmission and get my car back on the road. He said he would rather have me at work than out looking at cars!!!

My life has calmed down a bit, and I have a part time job that I use to fund my cars. That is where all the engine work was done for my car, and where all the flow testing will be done. Im planning a completely new setup next year, which is why I am intake shopping.

Here is my mod list:
97 GSX. 6-bolt swap, lsd rear
2.0L bored .020 over, weisco 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle Rods, cometic head gasket and all ARP studs.
Comp 200's w/ fidazza gears, Ferrea +1mm valves w/ duel springs and Ti Retainers and fully ported head.
MHI EVO3 (ported by sbr), EVO3 Exhaust Mani and o2, RRE Downpipe and Apexi n1 exhaust.
Greddy 24r FMIC w/ dejon Piping for Blow Thru, SSQV, GM MAFT w/ 3", AVCr EBC.
Stewart Warner Gauges, Innovate LM1, DSMlink
ACT 2600 clutch and Flywheel, Shep Stg 3/4 w/4 spyder diff

All I can tell you is I'm not going to steal your parts. I hate theives, and I know what it is like to get your stuff stolen. I had $1000 of parts disapear from a shop that my car was at years ago.

My full time job is at ProKART Indoors in Burnsville. I am the head manager here, and have been here since we opened in 2000. I work atleast 55 hours a week, so Im not hard to track down. I am more than happy to provide anybody who donated their manifold for testing my personal cell number and home adress.

[Super Bleeder!!]

http://206.124.12.138/intake/

[iroc_g]

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!

http://206.124.12.138/intake/

I haven't seen this before! There is deffinatly some great information here.

This does not show what I want to test for though. The main goal of my tests are to determine which manifold(s) are made to get evenly distributed air flow.

For example. We had a customers supercharged car that continuley was burning up exhaust valves in the #2 cylinder. After the second failure, we decided to flow the intake manifold to see if there were any issues. two of the runners were off my 10%. This means that if these two cylinders were running at a happy afr, the two that had the extra 10% airflow were lean, because they were getting the same fuel that the others were.

I have talked to quite a few people about intake testing in the past week. For some reason, all anybody wants to do is dyno them. Yes, this shows their potential for power, but not the whole picture. Im not going to put a part on my car that could easily cause damage for an extra few ponies. I was actually bothered to find out that many of these intake companies have NEVER had their manifolds flow tested. Scary, huh?

[Halon]

If you'd like to use mine, I'd let you borrow it for a short period of time. Not sure how you want to do it though considering I'm in Blaine, and you're in AV.

[95talonracer]

I have a venom but its on my car and the car is parked until spring so I dont need it. I will need a new intake mani gasket tho! Just another to add to the list. Let me know. I am a little north of blaine so if you wanted to pick the 2 up you could.

[turbotalon1g]

I would taxi it around for this cause.

[iroc_g]

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

I would taxi it around for this cause.

If you do that, your the man!

Halon is in with his 1g jmf new version. Thanks bud!

95talonracer: i'll pm ya so we can work out the details.

[john]

I think our mirage has a magnus (not sure as it hasn't been driven in a while). If I get over to the house, I will check. Haven't had time to work on it an most likely wont have the time to take it off though...

[Halon]

Brownman, if you are serious about being able to taxi it around, let me know. Maybe when you stop by to pick up the washer reservoir, I can give it to you to bring to him.

Iroc_g - BTW mine is the new style RACE manifold, you put my name next to the wrong one.

[iroc_g]

Corrected. I only have my phone for internet at home since my computer died. I end up miss-typing alot!

John, if you could find the time, it would be great!

[iroc_g]

Sounds like swifty has recruted a few more manifolds too! I'll get the details tomarrow.

I forgot about the stock manifolds too. Not sure if it's neccesary to test them all, but a 1g baseline and maybe an evo3. Honestly, if it's a option we should test it.

[Goat Blower]

I don't know if there's a manifold out there that doesn't favor a few cylinders over the others, it's part of the drawback of having a plenum entry on one side versus the middle. I've wanted to build a manifold that does have the entry from the middle for perfect cylinder balance, but packaging on our cars would be a bit tricky.

[joem]

I have a stock jdm mani if you want to test it.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

I don't know if there's a manifold out there that doesn't favor a few cylinders over the others, it's part of the drawback of having a plenum entry on one side versus the middle.

The ones that have a straight entry(no angled like some of the aftermarket ones) into the middle of the plenum like on an MR2 turbo are much worse. The center cylinders get so much more air than the others that they lean out a lot and engine up burning up those pistons with some mods over stock. I wonder if that crazy AMS F1 intake gives fairly equal distribution with it's design.

[iroc_g]

It is 100% possible to get even flow to all cylinders. I have seen it on stock and aftermarket intakes for different applications. The problem here is that some of these manufactures didn't even test them for flow.

I spoke to a few manufactures yesterday, requesting flow numbers. Some said they never flowed them, a few said they would have to get back to me. The only thing they all said was that their expierience was all the customers cared about was dyno sheets, and the amount of power gain there was.

Obviously, we all want a manifold that makes more power, but it is more important to make sure all the cylinders are getting equal distribution. Not only for performance, but longevety

[jhaan_dude]

ice minion has my magnus street, im sure you can borrow it from him