quest+AEM+fuel+spark = no start. help?

FattyBoomBatty · 09-28-2007

Title describes it.

In this picture, I have the wires hooked up to the coil 1-4-2-3 left to right. Is that right?

I checked for spark and it has a pretty strong looking spark. I can smell fuel because it's seeping from the copper washers at the fuel rail and filter (I can fix that later).

And I did not have the computer connected when I cranked it, I am running it off an inverter plugged into the cig. lighter, And I'm not sure, but that might not get power while cranking, dunno. I'll have to wait till friday to check that out.

Could the timing be really wrong? I have the CAS installed with the marks lined up, aligned with TDC on the cam.

I loaded the 1300MAP cal. file and changed to the GM air and water sensors, switched to the 5 bar AEM MAP sensor, changed the injector value to 720cc (they are 750's though) and saved it and loaded it up to the ecu.

Would it be better if I had watched the computer as it cranked?

Lastly, starting a car on AEM with all dsm wires/components would take a professional how long? Because I am thinking about just finishing the install of all the parts and taking it somewhere that knows what the hell they're doing.

recommendations?

edit: would anybody who knows anything about this care to look at the .cal file I used? Cause if you want to, I'd be happy to share, if you were in a helpful mood.

MustGoFaster · 09-28-2007

Sounds like your close, did you try giving it some throttle while cranking? With an AEM it's fine to do so, you will be leaning out the mixture (assuming it's set up the normal way). 1-4-2-3 should be right, but you could always try swapping them around. 2-3-1-4. Did you get any attempts to fire?

When you say computer, do you mean a laptop or a more desktop type deal?

**JET** · 09-29-2007

It's really late, but I think you have the wires backwards. Do 2-3-1-4 once and see what happens.

FattyBoomBatty · 09-29-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustGoFaster

Sounds like your close, did you try giving it some throttle while cranking? With an AEM it's fine to do so, you will be leaning out the mixture (assuming it's set up the normal way). 1-4-2-3 should be right, but you could always try swapping them around. 2-3-1-4. Did you get any attempts to fire?

When you say computer, do you mean a laptop or a more desktop type deal?

I meant laptop computer with a battery that doesn't work, so I need to always have it plugged in, but I was thinking that the 12v cig lighter plug doesn't get juice when I crank, so I didn't test that theory, I just turned off the computer.

All the aem stuff was plugged in, of course. I am in a difficult position with playing with the car, I only get to see it on fridays, like a prisoner or something.

As for the spark plug order, Jet's saying it might be 2-3-1-4, and you mentioned it once, so I'll try that. And I didn't give it any throttle, it didn't cross my mind, I'm used to factory starting setup, lol.

niterydr · 09-29-2007

You can always bring it down, we can sort it out.

**Goat Blower** · 09-29-2007

Yeah, your computer won't be powered while you're cranking, that's the problem I had running a laptop with a bad battery. You can actually see if you're getting spark by your tachometer jumping just a bit while cranking.

I'm no pro and it took me about 15 minutes to get my AEM hooked up and started. You did set the base timing at 5 degrees and set the AEM the same, correct? You'll have to immediately match up the timing between the two once the car is running.

FattyBoomBatty · 09-29-2007

I know that, but there is absolutely no way for my to tell what mechanical timing is now, lol. I would have to get it running first, and as for timing in AEM, it's whatever the 13_1300map.cal file set it to, which is something pretty low for idle, I think, but like 30 degrees when cranking, I looked at that graph a bit, but I didn't do anything about it.

This is on my g54b engine, not a 4g6x, so it's all goofy and mostly a guess.

edit: oh yeah, I wanted to ask: I know it spins ok, but if there was a problem with the CAS, it probably wouldn't spark, right?

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 09-30-2007

Does it fire in the slightest? If you are getting spark at all, then the CAS and AEM are atleast getting something, but it could be firing the cylinders on the wrong stroke.

Are the spark plugs soaking in fuel or not?

Did you adjust the fuel and timing maps for the MAP sensor change, they need to be rescaled, but wouldn't be used until it fires and gets out of cranking mode.

Cranking timing is usually in the 10-20 degree range.

Do you adjust the cranking fuel table?

The main fuel and cranking fuel table would also need adjustment for the displacement different between a 2.0l and 2.6l.

Are you using a CAS, ignitor and coil from a 1G or are they setup exactly the same on a Conquest, including the way the CAS is orientated into the cam?

MustGoFaster · 09-30-2007

I had him send me the file.

Not that you need to but my first recommendation would be to go here and DL the new software version. Your on 1.00, the newest is 1.19, they update and add features and fix bugs. http://forum.aempower.com/forum/inde...c,17194.0.html

You should also go through every option and check them. I just looked at the cam/crank sensor options and it had the "lancer 2.4" one selected.

FattyBoomBatty · 10-01-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

Does it fire in the slightest? If you are getting spark at all, then the CAS and AEM are atleast getting something, but it could be firing the cylinders on the wrong stroke.

Are the spark plugs soaking in fuel or not?

Did you adjust the fuel and timing maps for the MAP sensor change, they need to be rescaled, but wouldn't be used until it fires and gets out of cranking mode.

Cranking timing is usually in the 10-20 degree range.

Do you adjust the cranking fuel table?

The main fuel and cranking fuel table would also need adjustment for the displacement different between a 2.0l and 2.6l.

Are you using a CAS, ignitor and coil from a 1G or are they setup exactly the same on a Conquest, including the way the CAS is orientated into the cam?

No fire at all, just cranking. I didn't check the plugs, not a whole lot of time that day.

I just changed the sensors and fuel injector size in through the menus. I did not mess with any tables. This was my first time seeing the AEM program running, and I've never had any training/experience in tuning, so I am a n00b.

It uses everything from a '90 dsm. I modded the camshaft to drive the CAS from the back - see "turning my quest into a dsm" in the project section on this site for pics.

I will try some of the stuff you (extremely helpful) guys are suggesting, but with every response I am leaning more and more toward just bringing it in somewhere.

blageo23 · 10-01-2007

Same thing happend to me when I tried to start my car. Brought It to Shane and he fixed it up. But mine turned out to be my COP setup so IDK.

MustGoFaster · 10-01-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

No fire at all, just cranking. I didn't check the plugs, not a whole lot of time that day.

I just changed the sensors and fuel injector size in through the menus. I did not mess with any tables. This was my first time seeing the AEM program running, and I've never had any training/experience in tuning, so I am a n00b.

It uses everything from a '90 dsm. I modded the camshaft to drive the CAS from the back - see "turning my quest into a dsm" in the project section on this site for pics.

I will try some of the stuff you (extremely helpful) guys are suggesting, but with every response I am leaning more and more toward just bringing it in somewhere.

If you haven't read the manual yet you will need to if you want to have a chance. But your best bet maybe to bring it to somewere that has some experince with them. If you've done your work right, it shouldn't take long to get it going.

FattyBoomBatty · 10-01-2007

Yeah, I got a little bit through the setup section in the manual. I'll read some more, and get that update for the software.

FattyBoomBatty · 10-08-2007

I got it to stumble over on friday, I switched the 1 and 4 plug wires but as I was informed by Ryan, as long as 1 and 4 are together on one coil it doesn't really matter. right now it's 4-1-2-3.

He said it is best to add fuel to get it to start better. Which section should I change to add fuel during cranking?

MustGoFaster · 10-08-2007

I was talking about to make it stay running, typically unless it's fog you out rich and the car won't stay running, it's too lean.

If your new map is similar to the one you sent me before you will need to take cranking fuel out. Open up the starting template and you will see a TPS VS. Cranking fuel table. Adjust this table to adjust fuel delivered for cranking. Since you are having to open the throttle to get it to stumble, you will need to take fuel out (unless it's stumbling only when the throttle is closed)

tpunx99GSX · 10-09-2007

If it is a 6 bolt you need to swap plugs so its 2-3-4-1. Should fire right up.
I had the same problem before i knew about that, then i looked it up and sure enought 6 bolts stroke is 2-3-4-1

**JET** · 10-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

6 bolts stroke is 2-3-4-1

WTF?

MustGoFaster · 10-10-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

WTF?

QFT!

I don't know how many bolts hold on the flywheel but it doesn't matter cause this is G54B land son. Maybe you should start over on this thread.

FattyBoomBatty · 10-11-2007

Yeah, it's a 6 bolt. I stroked it to 2.6Liters and ditched a cam.

tpunx99GSX · 10-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

WTF?

you know what i meant dammit.

Quote:

It uses everything from a '90 dsm. I modded the camshaft to drive the CAS from the back - see "turning my quest into a dsm" in the project section on this site for pics.

This tells me that hes running a 4g63. but earlier i seen that he was with the stupid ugly g54b or whatever the fuck it is.