09-06-2016
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#1361
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
Random update. It's not going to happen right away, but I'm slowly starting to gather parts for a built bottom end. Not that I need it, but with this engine being higher mile, it does have a few leaks, including the rear main which I can tell now that the trans is off. I'm going to let this motor buck for awhile yet, but eventually it could benefit from a refresh. And while I'm at it, figure might as well throw some upgraded internals at it. I've been talking with Tony at Real St. and came up with a setup I think I'll be very happy with.
- Manley H-Tuff Rods / ARP2000 bolts
- Manley Pistons (86.5mm, come in 9:1 or 10:1)
- ACL Race Bearings
- ARP Main Studs / OEM Main Caps
Chose these parts after MUCH consideration. These rods are very affordable, yet you can tell they are much beefier than other 'budget' rods. I'm confident they will hold well into the 4 figures. Then just going with the matching Manley pistons just made sense to me, especially considering their price and their different CR options. This overall setup should keep my very safe up to around 1000hp we feel. In the extremely rare event I want to go beyond that, the hardware I selected should be plenty up to the task, however I'd probably add billet main caps. But being that I don't ever see myself going beyond (or even reaching) 1000, it just didn't make sense to do right now since billet mains are atleast $1k+ adder to the motor build.
The only thing I'm up in the air about is the pistons, to get the 9:1 or 10:1. 10:1 seems like the no brainer option, except once you realise that CR number is based on a 2JZGTE (TT) setup. Being that I'm a 2JZGE (NA) block, GE head, GE headgasket, my quick calcs put me around 11.2:1 with those which is a bit higher than I'd like, but potentially do-able since I only run e85. The 9:1 pistons would put me around 9.9:1 which sounds excellent. However if I ever end up at a point where I feel I need to run say a thicker GTE headgasket, that'll drop me down to the low 9's on those which is lower than I'd prefer, or in the low 10's with the "10:1" pistons which is ideal. So I'm kind of up in the air right now on that single choice, but I'm leaning towards the "9:1" set.
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09-14-2016
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#1362
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
Last edited by Halon; 09-14-2016 at 10:59 PM..
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09-15-2016
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#1363
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: eagan
Posts: 898
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Re: Project Lex
Very cool! On the compression note, I would go lower compression and compensate with boost. It's safer for a street car and more forgiving with variation on climate conditions, fuel quality, etc... My evo is 9.0 to 1, no complaints on spool, drivability or power, and it's got around 20k miles at 770hp with no issues to date.
__________________
Slowest: 2017 Corvette Z06 - Z07 Trim
Fast: EvoIX SE Blouch 2.0xtr turbo E85
Faster: Evo IX MR PTE6266 E85 823WHP 9.90@147
Fastest: 92 Talon AWD 8.14 @ 171 MPH
www.maperformance.com
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09-15-2016
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#1364
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MN
Drives: four tires
Posts: 1,608
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Re: Project Lex
Wow! Little dude is big! Cute little guy!
On the compression, I like Mark's advice.
Good progress on the tranny etc. Does the bell housing and new mount make the difference you hoped for during install?
__________________
NSX - S480/Built motor
GSX - 571whp/490wtq
Sienna
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09-15-2016
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#1365
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
Thanks for the input. Low to mid 9s was my initial thought too when I started looking into this. But soon as I started talking to Real St, they highly recommended 10:1. They continued to say that is the sweet spot on these motors with e-fuel. I told them my concerns about climate and seasonal blends, this being a street car i dont want to have anything on the edge, and they said yep they understand but their recommendation was still 10:1 as it is perfect for what I want. This is exactly why I chose to talk with a reputable Supra shop because I want the scoop straight from the folks who know this platform. So I took that info and then spoke with the gentleman who will be tuning my car. His name is Vlad, he is an absolute AEM guru and is a big Supra guy (which is why I choose him, he knows this platform in and out and he to apply this ecu to it). He tunes cars all day everyday, his specialty is the 2jz, and he has built a couple of his own personal 1000+ Supras and also owns an SC. He said he absolutely echos Real St, and he actually said anywhere between 10-10.5 is what he would run.
So with that information, I started to re think and research more. Sure enough, that is what all the top guys are saying. So with 9:1 TT pistons, that puts my NA setup at 9.9:1. So that seems to be a good choice e for me I think, staying at the lower end of that 10 - 10.5:1 range.
Plan is to have a local guy named Daniel Koetz do the build. He recently purchased my uncles entire engine / machine shop business, and has worked at places like MAP and RavenWorks, and has come highly recommended. He will likely be building another 2JZ right before mine too, so will be nice to have a local guy with some experience on this particular motor that I can trust. So assuming his quote comes back reasonable, he will be doing the build.
I've also been thinking about busing a core for him to build rather than pull mine out and give to him. That way I can have it slowly built on the side, without taking my car down, and swap once I'm totally ready. With that thought, would be the perfect time to convert to a VVTI motor (tunable variable intake timing). It'll give me much improved low end, and infinity can control it, and sounds like Vlad has tuned plenty of them before and can set it up pretty easily, and is in fact building a VVTI setup for himself at the moment. So, if anyone knows of any IS300's getting parted out, I'm in the market for a complete 2JZGE VVTI motor
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09-16-2016
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#1366
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
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Re: Project Lex
This thing sounds beasty!!!
Where is the local guys shop?
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09-16-2016
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#1367
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
He's in the middle of moving it all to his own place, I'm not quite sure where that is yet.
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09-16-2016
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#1368
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Braaaaaaaap!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fridley
Drives: '09 Silveraydo
Posts: 2,028
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Re: Project Lex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halon
So, if anyone knows of any IS300's getting parted out, I'm in the market for a complete 2JZGE VVTI motor
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I know a guy...
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09-16-2016
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#1369
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
^^ Mah ninja, in the process of working out a deal with him right now, thanks again dude!!!
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09-16-2016
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#1370
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
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Re: Project Lex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halon
He's in the middle of moving it all to his own place, I'm not quite sure where that is yet.
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Let me know where it ends up if you don't mind, i've heard nothing good about him.
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09-16-2016
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#1371
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
Well thanks to pat for the lead on a motor. I just purchased a local running 2JZGE VVTi out of a wrecked IS300. Full motor / long block, with manifolds, with accessories, and the stock auto transmission, for $300. Hoping to go get it on Sunday. I only need the block and head, so I'll try and sell the accessories and transmission off it and end up with a free donor motor out of the deal
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09-16-2016
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#1372
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
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Re: Project Lex
Fuuuccc, thats badass!
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09-18-2016
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#1373
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
Got my donor motor. $300, can't beat that. Time to slowly build it and try out this VVTI thing
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09-18-2016
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#1374
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immune from paybans
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Des Moines
Drives: poorly
Posts: 4,358
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Re: Project Lex
Wow what a steal, very nice.
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09-18-2016
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#1375
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
Nobody wants the GE (non-turbo) motors, especially the VVTi ones. No TT No Care. Works out great for me
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09-19-2016
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#1376
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back in the saddle again
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Re: Project Lex
I like all of these updates!
__________________
My street car runs low 11's and my race car's personal best is a mid 11....
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09-19-2016
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#1377
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
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Re: Project Lex
How much power stock can those hold?
This is going to be the motor you build right?
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09-20-2016
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#1378
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Re: Project Lex
Nice updates! If only I could do it all again... lol Finding a 300 dollar motor would be nice! haha
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09-20-2016
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#1379
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotalon1g
How much power stock can those hold?
This is going to be the motor you build right?
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Yes, this will be built. To try and keep it simple without going into all the details, all 2JZ blocks are virtually the same, Non-VVTi NA (GE), VVTi NA, TT (GTE), etc. are all virtually the same block. And it's no secret that these blocks can hold ridiculous power, even in stock form (700tq is a general guideline as the limit of the stock rods). But everyone wants the GTE motor because it's the TT motor. Most don't do the research to understand the non-vvti GE motor is also virtually just as strong, so that makes the GE motor less desirable (and cheaper). It's a GTE motor, but with 10:1 compression instead of 8.5:1 and no oil squirters, that generally speaking is the main short block differences. And I'd take 10:1 over 8.5:1 on e85 anyday!
Now, the VVTi GE motor, Toyota decided to put weaker (lighter) rods in the GE VVTi motor for whatever reason. These are the newer NA motors found in GS300's and IS300's. So that makes those even MORE undesirable. That's really how I got it so cheap, because nobody wants GE VVTi motors because it has the weaker rods that can "only handle 500hp" without becoming the weak link. Well to me that doesn't matter because I'm putting in built internals. So the fact nobody wants them just really works out in my favor. PLUS, VVTi is seen by so many people as some sort of black magic that's a tuners worst nightmare, so people avoid it thinking it's just going to be so difficult to tune, so why bother. Truth is, several folks have tuned it and the information is out there, and it's supposidely not that complicated. Advance 40* starting around like 1500rpm's. Gradually reduce it down to 0* Advance by around 5000rpm, that's all there is to it. I checked with my tuner, he said he's done several before and it's awesome, and is currently building a VVTi setup for his 80mm Supra. It makes a tremendous difference in the lower RPM range. Some folks even said that other than maybe Nitrous, there isn't another mod that will give you this big of a low end gain. It will not make more horsepower overall, but it'll make it sooner and give you a much fatter power band. See comparison below of Non-VVTi (thin line) vs. VVTi (bold line). But there is this mindset by the majority still that VVTi a nightmare, so again makes it less desirable and just a sweeter deal for me. Also means I can maybe jump to a 66mm turbo or something which I never would have considered before as it'd be seemingly so laggy to me, but I can retain as good of low end as I already have because of VVTi plus with the 10:1 compression still feel very responsive
OK I guess I rambled, lol.
VVTi Dyno Comparison:
http://media.fyre.co/GiQkr0FrSjqTX7t...2002.43.06.jpg
Last edited by Halon; 09-20-2016 at 02:11 PM..
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09-20-2016
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#1380
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Project Lex
Side note, just purchased some guts for this motor. Huge thanks to Tony @ Real St. for spending weeks answering question after question from me, going through my pages of notes / calculations, verifying my compression math was correct with their well known engine builder, and overall helping me come up with what I believe is an absolute solid hardware choice while still being budget oriented. These rods I think will take anything I can ever throw at them, they are beefy!
Manley Pistons, 86.5mm, 9:1 rated compression (will be around 9.9:1 in my GE setup based on my math).
http://realstreetperformance.com/Sho...ra-2JZGTE.html
Manley H-Tuff Rods.
http://realstreetperformance.com/Sho...a-2JZ-GTE.html
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