1G Trouble shoot assistance needed

[Alpha D]

As some may know, i bought a dsm from a fellow Mitsu Style member. Like almost all DSMs though, it has issues. It is a 1991 Talon TSI AWD TURBO. The motor was has been fully rebuilt(supposedly at least). The mod list goes as:

Engine :
Stock Rebuilt 6 Bolt Block (Ceramic Paint Coated)
ARP Headstuds
Balance Shafts Eliminated
ZERO miles on rebuilt motor

Exhaust :
Ported 2G 02 Housing (Ceramic Paint Coated)
2.5" Custom Straight Turboback Exhaust w/Magnaflow Muffler
*come with stock 1G exhaust manifold.


Intake:
3" Short Ram Intake Pipe (Ceramic Paint Coated)
Ported MHI Evo 3 16G Turbocharger
3G 501 MAS
QPR Throttle Body FIAV Blockoff Plates

Fuel:
560CC EVO VIII Injectors (Some of them leaked i ordered the new seals and properly installed them. They do not leak anymore)
Walbro 190 LPH Fuel Pump*

Electronics:
Eprom ECU w/Keydiver Chip
TurboSmart Boost Tee MBC

Drivetrain:
ACT 2600 Clutch Kit
Roller Skate Shifter Bearings
Non-Cruise Shifter Cable

Miscellaneous:
FIAV Eliminated
Emissions Eliminated
A/C Eliminated
Cruise Control Eliminated
Catalytic Converter Eliminated

*There are more mods that have to do with interior and suspensions. I didn't add it though, because I don't think it will help solve the problem*

According to the seller the only issues that need to be fixed, in order for it to be drivable, was a boost leak which was due to a faulty intake manifold, and injectors. So we Flat bedded the car to a friends garage. Jump started the car. The list starts from there.

Issues
1)The car idles horribly.
We fixed the intake leak, purchased new O-rings and seals for the injectors (Mitsubishi dealership parts), but the car still idles like crap. The car holds it's idle at 500rpm even when we tried adjusting the BISS screw. After adjusting the BISS screw, it would jump up to 1300rpm. We steadily lowered the rpm to about 1100 rpm (Anything under 1100 and it will go straight to about 450-500rpm)

2) The car produces an exponential amount of smoke from the exhaust pipe(we were told it is because it's running EXTREMELY rich) as well as from the oil cap(when opened). We do believe that it's running very rich, but why? The smoke starts as a bit whitish, but turns bluish. As if it was burning oil. It literally pours smoke. It will drip black colored fluid out the exhaust tip, as well as shoot it a distance of roughly 3feet.( Contacted the seller about it as well, according to him it is due to the carbon build up and condensation) At one time we opened the the oil cap to take a look at what was going on while the car idled. As soon as we opened it a pressurized amount of smoke (grayish color) went shooting up into the hood. You can smell a strong scent of gas. The smoke would continue to rise out the valve cover for close two 20minutes. The car idled for only 3 to 4 minutes at max. The smoke would continue to rise out the valve cover from the oil cap opening for 20minutes.When i pulled the dipstick to check the texture of the oil. It was not slippery, more like slightly gripe.

3) Car won't go into reverse.
The seller did not mention anything about the transmission. This isn't something I'm too worried about. We have been told that it might be due to the shifter linkage. Until we do that though, we won't know for sure. It could be the synchros as well. It does shift smoothly and quickly into all the other gears 1 2 3 4 5 except for reverse. (This is at a dead stop)

4) When we turned the vehicle of after approximately 30seconds a knocking noise will start. It continues in a timely manner. In a interval of about 7seconds ting......ting.......ting........ I have no idea what it could be.

Overall, I have tried to be as descriptive as possible. I do apologize for the lengthy paragraphs. As well as for any and all points that are not clear. I am really hoping it is something simple, and the car will run great. Exactly how the seller signed in the contract. It has cost much more than we had expected. Also funds are low. Thanks in advance for all the suggestions.

The slightest hints are appreciated. In addition i have not ran a compression test, leak down test, or checked for proper timing on the vehicle. The fuel system has not been pressure tested neither.

[asshanson]

Is the IAC blocked off along with the FIAV? That blockoff plate could have something to do with the idle if there is a leak. Either that or ECU problems could cause the IAC to not function correctly. Are you sure there are no boost leaks?

Before you diagnose issues you need to check base timing and a full boost leak test. My car ran like crap until I realized my base timing was 10* after top dead center, 15* behind normal. Fuel system pressure test probably isn't necessary unless you are leaking gas.

*edit* What is the keydiver chip adjusting for fuel? You would need to adjust fuel by about -19%

[Constant_Project21]

First, thank you for properly punctuating and forming your sentences.

My guess on the smoking problem is a bad turbo, check for shaftplay, maybe take it off and look for oil. Happened to me once.

[Alpha D]

I wanted to get on the good side of fellow mitsustyle members. I realize it will be impossible to help me, if i do not pay attention to wording as well as description.

[Alpha D]

The turbo already has been checked for shaft play. The compressor wheel did not budge an inch.

[slowbubblecar]

Originally Posted by Alpha D

The turbo already has been checked for shaft play. The compressor wheel did not budge an inch.

Who checked it? The wheel wouldn't even be there anymore if it would have moved an inch.

[Alpha D]

No. Not as in rotation of the wheel. What i meant to say was there existed close to no in and out movement.

[Nartanian]

I can vouch for the turbo. There is 0 in/out shaft play and 1/16" side to side play at the very most.

[Alpha D]

We performed a boost leak down test. I found multiple leaks. In the intercooler piping, injectors, and throttle body gaskets. All of the leaks mentioned above have been fixed. My next step was to do a timing test. Going through various potential causes. Focusing on one problem at a time. I would appreciate if any body could make a small list. Of the things i should check. It would save me a lot of time.


Thank You.

[Alpha D]

Unfortunately i do not know what the keydiver chip is adjusting for fuel. I will try to contact the seller, and inquire if he knows the specific set up. I doubt he will know these details though. It could very well be a ECU issue. Is there any possible way i can check the ECU?

[asshanson]

Check for leaking capacitors on the ECU by taking the cover off.
It takes just a few minutes to check base timing, get a timing light and see where it's at.

If you're sure there are no vacuum leaks then check the resistance between the IAC coils, I think they should be around 40 ohms? There is a how-to on VFAQ.

[4seasons69]

as for the smoke and black liquid out the exhaust it sounds like you are burning a lot of oil. who rebuilt the engine?? just because someone rebuilt it doesn't mean they know what they are doing and did it right. a few things that can cause oil burning are the turbo, rings, valve guide seals, worn valve guides, excessive bearing clearances. just a few things to check

[Chim55117]

The Keydiver is chipped for the 560's, and 3G MAS. Longblock and head from this thread:

http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23485

[Kracka]

1. With your TB and MAS mods I wouldn't be surprised if a 1,100 RPM idle was the best you got out of it.
2. The car sounds to be running extremely rich and you may have a plugged PCV valve.
3. As previously discussed.
4. Sounds normal; most likely the exhaust contracting after getting heated and expanding.
5. Thank you for taking the time to properly form your post. As you can see, when you make things easy to read many people are willing to help out.

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by Alpha D

1)The car idles horribly.
We fixed the intake leak, purchased new O-rings and seals for the injectors (Mitsubishi dealership parts), but the car still idles like crap. The car holds it's idle at 500rpm even when we tried adjusting the BISS screw. After adjusting the BISS screw, it would jump up to 1300rpm. We steadily lowered the rpm to about 1100 rpm (Anything under 1100 and it will go straight to about 450-500rpm)

2) The car produces an exponential amount of smoke from the exhaust pipe(we were told it is because it's running EXTREMELY rich) as well as from the oil cap(when opened). We do believe that it's running very rich, but why? The smoke starts as a bit whitish, but turns bluish. As if it was burning oil. It literally pours smoke. It will drip black colored fluid out the exhaust tip, as well as shoot it a distance of roughly 3feet.( Contacted the seller about it as well, according to him it is due to the carbon build up and condensation) At one time we opened the the oil cap to take a look at what was going on while the car idled. As soon as we opened it a pressurized amount of smoke (grayish color) went shooting up into the hood. You can smell a strong scent of gas. The smoke would continue to rise out the valve cover for close two 20minutes. The car idled for only 3 to 4 minutes at max. The smoke would continue to rise out the valve cover from the oil cap opening for 20minutes.When i pulled the dipstick to check the texture of the oil. It was not slippery, more like slightly gripe.

3) Car won't go into reverse.

4) When we turned the vehicle of after approximately 30seconds a knocking noise will start. It continues in a timely manner. In a interval of about 7seconds ting......ting.......ting........ I have no idea what it could be.

1&2: To me sounds like the ECU. Open it up and take a look for a burned spot or goo (mostly near the 3 capacitors).

3: Take the end cover off the tranny, there's a good chance the issue is right there, or it can at least be diagnosed from there.

4: The sound you are describing is just the exhaust cooling off; you may also hear a drip sound which is probably the oil draining down out of the head.

It's going to be hard to properly break in a new engine with the idle/rich issue. As well as being just overall hard on the engine with the possible cylinder wash running that rich (plus contaminating the oil).

Do a compression check as well to make sure it isn't just a non-sealing head gasket, as that will make it idle bad and seem rich. Is the oil milky at all? If so, coolant is in the oil.

As soon as you get it running right, change the oil before even driving it at all.

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by Alpha D

Unfortunately i do not know what the keydiver chip is adjusting for fuel. I will try to contact the seller, and inquire if he knows the specific set up. I doubt he will know these details though. It could very well be a ECU issue. Is there any possible way i can check the ECU?

Keydiver puts a full description at the beginning that can be read in a hex editor, so if you know anyone with a chip burner they can check it for you, as well as check to see if anyone modified it after keydiver did it.

[scheides]

Yay actual info!

After you fixed all of the boost leaks, did you fire it up again? How did it idle and how did it run? If it actually had *zero* miles on it I would expect it to smoke a little upon startup, 30 seconds is not very long. Unless it is making bad noises or you suspect bad problems, let it run until its fully up to operating temp.

Pull the ECU out, yank the cover off, and look at what the label says on the EPROM. Keydiver should label his chips. Take a picture of it, post it here, or whatever it says on it.

Verify that the MAS is actually operating properly! Do you have a logger? Or another MAS you can swap in? If its either not wired properly or damaged (since its used) it could be causing the above problems. Logging is the ONLY way to verify its actually operating correctly.

So, my list:
-check eprom
-Do a compression test.
-Get someone experienced to help you do a leakdown test.
-Get a logger, log it.

You mentioned oil and coolant leaks in the other thread, but not here. Get those solved?

[Kevin 1G Drummer]

Originally Posted by scheides

so, my list:
-check eprom
-do a compression test.
-get someone experienced to help you do a leakdown test.
-get a logger, log it.

+1.

[Alpha D]

Ok. So i need to check the ECU itself. I can inspect it for leaky capacitors. I do not have a logger though. The car does not have a safc, dsm, link, or wideband. Regarding the MAS i do not have a second one to replace it with.

-How can i check for a bad wiring job?

-Should I take the Computer into elite, or map for inspection?

-I do not want to let the car idle for to long yet drive it. So should i take the MAS with me when i take it in to get inspected?

[Alpha D]

Regarding the coolant I could not find a leak. I tighten all the hoses down, and am hoping it was something minor like that. The oil pan is really oily. It is not a bad leak though. I also looked under the car, and realized black fluid dripping from the flex pipe as well. The valve cover is leaking oil.It is not bad enough to make its way to the button of the car. I will be replacing it with a new one soon.