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Old 02-02-2009   #1
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Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

Alright. I'm stumped cause this is just dumb after a week's worth of BS and having absolutely every dsm problem go wrong in straight swapping a motor.

Clutch disengages on the floor. Yea yea, i know what you're thinking, adjust clutch pedal, bleed slave, blah blah. Well I've done all that. Thing is, nothing in the clutch setup changed, fluid was not even lost when we pull the slave cylinder off. We used the same exact pressure plate, flywheel, clutch disc. The ONLY thing we changed was the throw out bearing to a new ACT one. I am thinking for some reason the new TOB is slightly shorter causing this throw problem. Any other ideas? The clutch pedal use to be 3-4 inches off the floor, now it is about .5 inch off the floor with pedal adjustment all the way out.

Does anyone know the "true" proper way to bleed a clutch?
vaccuum line in brake fluid reservoir from slave cylinder to prevent air from being sucked back in,
clutch adjustment backed all the way in,
cap of master cyl off or on?
what else? I'm open to hearing everything anyone has to say to help out.
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Old 02-02-2009   #2
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

Replace the clutch fork? I had this same issue and I dicked around with it for months until I replaced everything and the clutch fork was my issue. I laid it next to a brand new OEM one and you could see the old one was bent. Now I always replace it.

Its always easier to have 2-3 people when bleeding the clutch. Try to get it the best you can, if that doesnt work I would look into other things. See if the clutch fork is making its "full throw" by watching it while someone pushes the clutch pedal.
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Old 02-02-2009   #3
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

Yup, I'd say the clutch fork got bent somehow. Try bleeding the clutch line to be sure...actually, double check the hard sections of the line and make sure it didn't get kinked somewhere?

Then bleed it. crack open bleeder as someone is slowly pushing down on the clutch pedal, then close it before they hit the floor. Keep the cap off the reservoir, and topped all the way up if you can (the best thing to do is have one of those upside down, auto-fill bottles so it stays full as you keep bleeding).

Positive the clutch didn't get damaged as you re-installed the tranny? smashed input shaft into one of the fingers or something?
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Old 02-02-2009   #4
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

Pumping the clutch to build line pressure does the trick to disengage the car out/into gear. It actually is drivable when this is done..

..which leads me to believe the fork and plate are fine...

And like cher said, nothing was swapped or changed. The slave was bled for a good half hour. The car was fine before. Now after..wah wah, this new problem occurs.

We will slow bleed the clutch this weekend, loosening the bleeder valve as someone pushes the pedal to the floor slowly...maybe this will do the trick.

I think we have the right input and ideas for process of elimination.
I am just really sick of putting this car together in 10 degree (or colder) weather.

thanks for the input.
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Old 02-03-2009   #5
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

If pumping builds the pressure, then it would probably be worn out cylinders master or slave.
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Old 02-03-2009   #6
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

I had the same issue awhile back and it ended up being the clutch fork, except mine even broke one of the fingers off. If that happened you can tell by relieving the slave cylinder pressure from the fork, but if its just bent i dont think you can. Oh and if I remember correctly act started using mitsu tob's.
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Old 02-03-2009   #7
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

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Oh and if I remember correctly act started using mitsu tob's.

Nope, side by side you can see the difference. I don't think it's a TOB issue though.

Possibly your clutch master.
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Old 02-04-2009   #8
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

Had this problem all the time and i always got it fixed. IF: There are no bubbles in the system. The pivot ball has been shimmed. the flywheel is stepped properly. And everything you can think of has been done then i would seriously recommend extending the threaded master cylinder rod. On all three of my 1g's, this fixed my problem. Cut about 1/4-3/8'' of the threaded end off and have about a 1/2'' of some other bolt with the same thread welded on. Then reinstall and you should have instant engagement at the top. You are welcome to see it working on my bro's talon anytime.
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Old 02-04-2009   #10
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

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Originally Posted by joesushi View Post
Had this problem all the time and i always got it fixed. IF: There are no bubbles in the system. The pivot ball has been shimmed. the flywheel is stepped properly. And everything you can think of has been done then i would seriously recommend extending the threaded master cylinder rod. On all three of my 1g's, this fixed my problem. Cut about 1/4-3/8'' of the threaded end off and have about a 1/2'' of some other bolt with the same thread welded on. Then reinstall and you should have instant engagement at the top. You are welcome to see it working on my bro's talon anytime.
Yea, I ended up welding a nut on 4 years ago on my maroon 1g. It worked great.
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Old 02-04-2009   #11
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

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Originally Posted by desolate View Post
If pumping builds the pressure, then it would probably be worn out cylinders master or slave.
+1 absolutely. If you can pump it and solve the problem, it's a cyl problem. Replace the slave first, it's the most likely to fail. If that doesn't fix it, then do the master. Do both if you wanna *ghasp* do some preventative maintenance!
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Old 02-04-2009   #12
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

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Originally Posted by scheides View Post
Do both if you wanna *ghasp* do some preventative maintenance!
yea right. if it aint broke, dont fix it! So we may just fix it with a new car purchase anyways, haha.
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Old 02-04-2009   #13
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

Install new master and slave cylinders...but it wont fix it.

I run synthetic fluid (purple looks cool) (will not soak up water)

You will most likely need to extend the master rod...might want to take care of this before you install the new one....will save you time later...you only need to extend it a total of 1/2 inch.

You can have any shop do this

The thread you will need is m8x1.25

cut off 1.5 inches, and weld on 2 inches of thread.

Gotta love freaken 1G's setup.

Remember the extended SLAVE rod doesnt do anything to solve the problem.

The problem is there is not enough fluid being pumped through the master slave cylinder by the defective and failing design of the 1G clutch setup.
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Old 02-04-2009   #14
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceminion View Post
Install new master and slave cylinders...but it wont fix it.

I run synthetic fluid (purple looks cool) (will not soak up water)

You will most likely need to extend the master rod...might want to take care of this before you install the new one....will save you time later...you only need to extend it a total of 1/2 inch.

You can have any shop do this

The thread you will need is m8x1.25

cut off 1.5 inches, and weld on 2 inches of thread.

Gotta love freaken 1G's setup.

Remember the extended SLAVE rod doesnt do anything to solve the problem.

The problem is there is not enough fluid being pumped through the master slave cylinder by the defective and failing design of the 1G clutch setup.
huh? what are you trying to say? to weld the nut behind the master cyl rod? That's a mega band-aid I'm not gonna do unless I absolutely have to(like I have before).

The plan is to:

1)replace/check slave cyl. get an extended rod
2)replace/check Master cyl.
3)take trans off, new fork, ball, shim ball
then band-aid with
4)weld nut on bracket for master cyl rod.
5)pull pedal assembly and weld everything solid w/ new bushings.

anyone have anything besides those?
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Old 02-04-2009   #15
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

The issue you are having is because not enough fluid is reaching the slave cylinder.

So....

anything you modify/work on down the line, at the slave, is not going to resolve your issue

You need to extend your MASTER rod, it is not a bandaid fix, it is a badass fix.

Every car that my brother and I have done this to turns out great.

Kyle at modern does this too, he recommeded that we do this also.

Good luck.
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Old 02-04-2009   #16
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

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...but it wont fix it.

LOL yes don't bother any of the cheap/simple fixes, do the most elaborate one....:P

I have money on the slave.
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Old 02-04-2009   #17
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

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LOL yes don't bother any of the cheap/simple fixes, do the most elaborate one....:P

I have money on the slave.
just letting him know that after spending the money at the dealership for the new master and slave cylinders (for both my DSM's) that I was in the same boat....

It is very important to replace 15 year old rubber seals....but chances are that will not resolve the compromised geometry of the flexing firewall and the clutch pedal assembly.

my money is on extending the master.
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Old 02-04-2009   #18
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

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Old 02-04-2009   #19
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Re: Clutch Low Engagement(yea, I know it's a DSM)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceminion View Post
just letting him know that after spending the money at the dealership for the new master and slave cylinders (for both my DSM's) that I was in the same boat....

It is very important to replace 15 year old rubber seals....but chances are that will not resolve the compromised geometry of the flexing firewall and the clutch pedal assembly.

my money is on extending the master.
Alright, maybe I didn't post it up there^^^ but absolutely nothing changed fluid-pressure-wise during this engine swap. The lines were never removed, pressure was never changed (UNTIL we found out the engagement had drastically gone down after the engine swap/install. The pedal had plenty of engagement beforehand so it is making me believe it is something after the slave. We did bleed it just because of the fact that something may have gotten crushed or something, but thats why I ended up where I am.

And yes, it IS technically a band-aid fix but I'm not gonna argue with you on that.

Anyhow, this thread is going nowhere. The most useful post was the one with the link to Jacks Transmissions about the proper way to adjust your clutch. I knew something about it, just wasn't sure on exactly how.

Thanks for the reply guys. This can be closed.
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