4g63 into a civic

cudvig · 09-14-2015

I know it has been done.

I was wondering if anyone has researched it more than myself?

The hardest part being the axle fitment. Along with perhaps the shift cable and assembly.
I was thinking otherwise things would be quite simple, only three motor mounts, one of which is a direct bolt in.

Wiring might be a tad annoying as well.

Anyone care for more input besides that it shouldn't be done?

-Colin

s1ngletracker · 09-14-2015

It would be easiest on an EF I think, because the front mount is similar. I am not sure how the axles would align and that would be probably a serious issue.

I know of a DSM team that eliminated the front mount and as a result, broke other mounts, so you have to be careful... although FWD would probably reduce torque on the engine.

I am not presumptuous enough (like it seems like other internet folk are) to tell you it shouldn't be done, but I am curious, why?

Wiring would only be hard if you're trying to do things like use the civic cluster for DSM motor/functions (I wouldn't even TRY that, personally, sounds like a complete nightmare). Should be easy enough to divorce functional/engine systems from creature comfort systems and keep them separate.

Interesting project and I could maybe offer some advice as i've done ground up racecar builds, including custom shit and extensive rewiring in both an EF and 1g.

turbotalon1g · 09-14-2015

Make it RWD!

cudvig · 09-14-2015

I would probably eliminate everything like cruise control, A/C, heat, things like that. The only thing I'm worried about is finding out what the acceptable angles on axles are or should be. mocking up stuff wouldn't be super difficult. Also with making the mounts custom and not having a cross member I wonder how much extra allowance I would have. I could always get custom axles, or would probably need to. I know the honda guys piece together B-series with prelude shafts to make the k20 fit. I wonder how different the splines (or whatever they are) between the dsms and hondas are.

I think it would be a fun project to do. I just wish there was a bit more information out there. The ones I have seen are usually AWD.

polishmafia · 09-14-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudvig

-Colin

Where have you been the last 5 years!? Haha good to see you!

cudvig · 09-15-2015

I've just been in school and working.

I think I'm gonna go ahead and do this in the spring. Obviously I'll have a build thread

I'm sure I'll also have tons of questions and there is a wealth of knowledge of this forum so hopefully you guys can help me through it!

I'm excited.

-Colin

s1ngletracker · 09-15-2015

I'm guessing you'll be in custom axle territory, I think driveshaftshop could probably build whatever you need.

Acceptable angles on CV joints i'd imagine is pretty well published. If you're in school I bet you have free access to SAE articles? (I'm jealous) I used to spend hours reading, saving, and printing SAE articles and citing them in school projects.

cudvig · 09-15-2015

I am not in school anymore. I can still probably find a way to get my hands on that knowledge though. I have already emailed raxles and will email driveshaftshop later on today to see what they can do.

They fitment I have found is 3/4 inch shorter on Passenger side and 1 inch longer on drivers side. Supposedly the axles from a D series fit perfectly into the 1g FWD trannies? I would imagine this information is false but am obviously willing to try it!

-Colin

sleepydsm · 09-15-2015

I have looked into this myself,

the engine trans will fit easily, duh, the mounts as very close in to the stock hondas.

I was wondering if you could somehow swap DSM Hubs for Honda hubs, or find a bearing that would allow that. (assuming the axels half assed lined up/ were long enough).

As said earlier driveshaft shop could probably get you squared away with anything you needed axel wise.

polishmafia · 09-15-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudvig

I've just been in school and working.

Thats good. I though you might have been in prison after the BB thing.

cudvig · 09-16-2015

I got in touch with driveshaftshop and they can do them for $850.. which seems like a tad much... there are lots of different sizes with the Honda axles so I'm going to see what I can do that route first!
I figured they could just take a Dsm inner, some length of shaft and a honda outer and make it work pretty easily, guess that is not the way they would do it... I'm gonna try piecing them together like they do on the k series swaps.

-Colin

The BB thing was rough but I've pulled myself out of that slump and am doing great things now.

s1ngletracker · 09-16-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepydsm

I have looked into this myself,

the engine trans will fit easily, duh, the mounts as very close in to the stock hondas.

I think it would be foolish to expect everything to bolt up. Sure, they look positionally close but when it came to dropping the motor in there, I would guess that none of them actually line up perfectly or the mounts were the right size. So you'll probably need custom adapters/mounts everywhere.

Add into that the fact that you also need to potentially reposition the entire assembly to get axle angles right and you're into some pretty tricky work. I do think you could get it to work, but it won't be trivial.

If you can't figure out how to retain the stock outer CV joint i'm guessing you could pick a bearing out of a catalog with the right diameters to use the DSM hub in the Honda knuckle.

C3L1CA · 09-16-2015

^Seems like a lot of work to me that I would never care to do.

Is there a reason why you don't just do a fwd dsm or a fix up a honda motor for the honda chassis? Think both would be capable engines and a lot easier and could spend more time/money making it go faster by sticking with the an original motor

cudvig · 09-16-2015

I think making custom motor mounts would be the easier route? Just because then you get the correct angles and lengths from the axles. I think with my mathematical background I should easily be able to construct something that works. I also think with custom motor mounts I have more flexibility with shifter cable lengths as well. I honestly can't imagine that the width of a DSM is THAT much different than a Civic, I'm guessing within an inch or two. I shouldn't have that much of an issue.

-Colin

cudvig · 09-16-2015

simply put I have access to a cheap, but completely built bottom end, and basically a free head. I also have a civic chassis.

I thought about doing a k20 swap... but the parts are just super expensive for what it would make for me.

dsm parts are cheap and I know the motors better.

-Colin

s1ngletracker · 09-16-2015

Ain't no shame in doing something for fun/for a challenge.

..as long as you're realistic and understand what you're getting yourself into, and I think you do. Good luck, keep us updated!

polishmafia · 09-16-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudvig

The BB thing was rough but I've pulled myself out of that slump and am doing great things now.

Great to hear! Good luck!

Perkul8r · 09-25-2015

In the builds I have looked at on Honda Tech and a couple other places. The 92-94 civics work great. A 1g DSM drivers side engine mount bolts into the stock engine mount on the car. Than its custom mounts for the rest.

You can see in these pics that the engine mount works.

I had wanted to do this swap for a long time, but I suck at wiring, so that was my biggest hurdle.