MAFT Pro

[munchgsx]

I was doing some reading on the MAFT Pro last night. I've been searching for a way to run speed density for cheap. This supports that and with a keydiver chip also allows timing control. I've had link on my last 2 cars and it's great but I was thinking about trying this out. Has anyone had experience with tuning on a MAFT Pro? How did it work? It says it has a feature that allows closed loop WOT. So you can set a desired A/F target and it will keep it there automatically. That would be great if it worked. I haven't found much negetive about this product other than a complicated setup process. Give me all the 2 cents you have.

Links
http://www.maftpro.com/tproinfo.shtml

[turbotalon1g]

Link + plus this, i have been looking at it too, but the V3 is getting closer it debuted at teh SO.

[scheides]

Andrew7dg or something on here is running it, he made awesome power on just a 14b(I think) w/ E85 on this. Do it.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

I have tuned a few and it usually works. I have used it in speed density mode and then just some in basic mode with a factory MAS, kinda like an SAFC with timing control. Sometimes the timing control doesn't work right though and it's hard to tell, unless you have it on a dyno and can see if making a huge change to the timing does anything. It is somewhat of a mess though. To tune in speed density, you pretty have to use Tuner Pro, to tune the VE Map. So you might have a serial adapter and wires for the MAFT Pro, a serial adapter and wires for a datalogger and maybe even an emulator or chip burner, if you are modding the EPROM at the same time too. The timing control harness needs to be ordered seperate. The MAFT Pro boost control is pretty easy to use though.

It isn't going to make any more power than a DSMLink with GM MAF and the DSMLink setup would be much easier to deal with setup wise, easier to tune, more consistant, and adapt to changes from mods easier. Speed density doesn't offer huge benefits over a MAS setup for most people, and it has disadvantages.

There are hacks to do native speed density with just an EPROM ECU also. It isn't the most refined thing, but people are running it. And doing an EPROM tune(MAS or SD) has better timing control than DSMLink or the MAFT Pro.

Closed loop WOT is neat, but it can be bad, if the wideband fails. If it fails, hopefully it sends a lean A/F to the MAFT Pro, so it just tries to add fuel, instead of trying to lean things out from a false O2 reading. I haven't used it on the MAFT Pro at all, but on systems like the AEM EMS, you can set it so that it could say 15% fuel if needed, but only allow it to pull out 5%.

[munchgsx]

Originally Posted by ecoli

I have tuned a few and it usually works. I have used it in speed density mode and then just some in basic mode with a factory MAS, kinda like an SAFC with timing control. Sometimes the timing control doesn't work right though and it's hard to tell, unless you have it on a dyno and can see if making a huge change to the timing does anything. It is somewhat of a mess though. To tune in speed density, you pretty have to use Tuner Pro, to tune the VE Map. So you might have a serial adapter and wires for the MAFT Pro, a serial adapter and wires for a datalogger and maybe even an emulator or chip burner, if you are modding the EPROM at the same time too. The timing control harness needs to be ordered seperate. The MAFT Pro boost control is pretty easy to use though.

It isn't going to make any more power than a DSMLink with GM MAF and the DSMLink setup would be much easier to deal with setup wise, easier to tune, more consistant, and adapt to changes from mods easier. Speed density doesn't offer huge benefits over a MAS setup for most people, and it has disadvantages.

There are hacks to do native speed density with just an EPROM ECU also. It isn't the most refined thing, but people are running it. And doing an EPROM tune(MAS or SD) has better timing control than DSMLink or the MAFT Pro.

Closed loop WOT is neat, but it can be bad, if the wideband fails. If it fails, hopefully it sends a lean A/F to the MAFT Pro, so it just tries to add fuel, instead of trying to lean things out from a false O2 reading. I haven't used it on the MAFT Pro at all, but on systems like the AEM EMS, you can set it so that it could say 15% fuel if needed, but only allow it to pull out 5%.

Are you saying that street tuning is out of the question? The way I understood is that I could use it's logging program in conjunction with DSM chips knock gauge. Does it log fuel trims? The gauge I know isn't that great so I would keep a logger around I guess. I get the the feeling I might be better off keeping link.

The whole reason I would even consider ditching link is the speed density option. I drive year round and have never had good luck with keeping a good tune good through out the seasons. I was thinking that this would stop the need for the occational retune. I know its not that hard to add alittle here and there but I'd rather just a IAT do it for me. Or am I way out of line there?

I also know I can use MAFT Pro in conjuntion with DSM Link. But if I'm going to keep link I'd rather not be spending the 600 on speed density if it's not going to be a benifit.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

You could street tune it, it just can be tricky to verify if the ignition timing function is working right.

DSMLink is the easiest system on any car to tune as long as you don't have phantom knock. With the MAFT Pro you have to tune a 255 cells in the fuel VE map or at least do the math or guess based on cells that you have actually tunes versus 16 fuel sliders in DSMLink and those fuel sliders don't even do anything until you are making a good amount of boost. The stock DSM MAS's have IAT sensors and if you run a GM MAF, then the air temp is part of the calculated airflow, so they are doing something for changes in temp. Often the temp compensation of speed density systems is worse. If there is a tunable table for the IAT sensor in the MAFT Pro, then you could try to dial it in, but often IAT sensors suffer from heatsoak or you might have 2 runs with exactly the same temperature, yet your A/Fs are much different. A lot of people with AEM EMS's don't even run an IAT sensor on turbo cars, especially if they live in better climate than ours, since under boost their temps are always 90-140 degrees and not much trimming is needed in those areas. If IAT are getting too hot, you cam have it start adding fuel to combat knock, but that is the opposite of the ideal gas law(which works less than ideal in the real world). IAT readings are actually most useful for ignition timing, normally you have it start pulling timing when the temps get too hot.

It would be something interesting to do, just don't expect it to make life easier or make a lot more power. Speed density systems don't compensate at all for mod changes or small changes in the setup. You can tune a DSM or Evo then throw some aftermarket cams in it and the A/Fs under boost will pretty much stay exactly the same. You change anything on a Honda or FD RX7 and they need a retune.

You will still need a real datalogger to monitor fuel trims for part throttle/idle tuning, knock sum and ignition timing.

[munchgsx]

Thanks for the great info, I think I'm going to hold out for v3 and stick with good old link and a 2G MAS. I think speed density is still in my future just to do something different. But it doesn't warrant $600 bucks just to run it in conjuntion with something I already have that into with little or no return. I think I need to concentrate elsewhere now, like on making it shift and relearning how to drive. It's been a while for me and AWD. Thanks for the excellent insight.

Nick <so happy to be back in the game.

[Andrew7dg]

Originally Posted by scheides

Andrew7dg or something on here is running it, he made awesome power on just a 14b(I think) w/ E85 on this. Do it.

I have read this whole thing and it is kind of interesting. I kind of like SD systems but thats not why I changed over. I just wanted a standalone cheap (not that cheap when added up but still fun to play with). + features like traction control, NLTS plus more...

I actually have the MS2 system that uses SD. I am using a 16X16 VE fuel table and 12x12 spark, 12x12 AFR table
For the IAT sensor, I am using a GM Open air element. It is an extra safty option but for DD I like having it there. I located it on the elbo but someone else said I should have put it on the intake manifold. I am also using a GM coolent temp sensor. I haven't yet plugged in the Knock control sensor but so far I really haven't needed it. I haven't been running it that agressively. I have been having flawless results with the MS2. About SD, you do have to retune it if you are going to make changes to the engine (however I haven't made any big modification to the engine that would require retuning it so I really don't know what it is like)

From the sound of MAFT Pro + changing ignition with DSM link... That is a lot of money plus lots of tuning on top of each other. Way too many programs running on the lap top for me. I like the simplicity of one system controlling it all. Wait for V3

[blackrosenova400]

I run the maft pro/speed density+keydiver chip ot control wot timing. Plus im running full e85

[munchgsx]

I am also considering megasquirt. Is there a general pulg and play harness or is this something that has to be built from scratch. Unfortunatly MS might be above my electronics knowlege. Very intimadating.

[munchgsx]

Originally Posted by blackrosenova400

I run the maft pro/speed density+keydiver chip ot control wot timing. Plus im running full e85

So is this a good direction to go? What are your results?

[Andrew7dg]

Do you like it? More feed back?


On a side note on IAT sensors, it does help to have one if you have water injection on the car.

Water injection gives a little cooling to the intake temperatures. On MAS sensors, the cooling isn't usually picked up because the temperature is taken on the intake tube before the turbo.

If you have the IAT after the water injection, cooler intake temps are achieved and you can run more timing.

I am going to try this and see how this works.

This goes completely off topic... sorry...

[Shane@DBPerformance]

The cooling would happen regardless of if the IAT sees it or not, so you would adjust the tune accordingly.