01-08-2010
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#1
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MSP
Drives: 2007 BMW 335i Coupe
Posts: 609
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Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
I was doing some reading online and found that with higher boost applications, horsepower, and modification, the stock BPR6ES spark plugs are more prone to detonation.
Sometimes while driving the VR-4, I get backfires around 4-5K RPM. And to some extent this would make sense in relation to my problem (of backfires). I have access to free NGK BPR9ES, and was wondering since I should spring for them and install them.
Is there any any "downside" from me running plugs that are 3 steps colder? There are also the options of BPR7ES, or BPR8ES. I just want to make sure that if I run the BPR9ES it isn't overkill for my application.
The VR-4 has a 20G with full supporting mods and the like and 324 WHP at 18 LB of boost. Relatively low street/daily boost is what it is at now. During the summer I will likely crank the boost and retune with my DSMLink.
Thanks in advance,
- Stephen
Last edited by Chim55117; 01-08-2010 at 11:11 AM..
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01-08-2010
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#2
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formerly ecoli
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: On the dyno
Posts: 4,892
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
It will be more prone to fouling out the plugs, starting can be harder, more likely to misfire, possible loss of power, part throttle drivability could be worse, gas milage could go down a tiny bit. Or you might not notice anything. 9s are a very cold plugs though, the main problem would be them being prone to fouling out. Most people run 7s on DSMs, you normally wouldn't run 9s unless your running 40+psi and make over 700whp.
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01-08-2010
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#3
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Saint Paul, MN.
Drives: E36
Posts: 2,269
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
I remember a friend of mine switching to 9's and seeing nothing good (pretty much identical set up as yours). I also went to an 8 for a bit, but my fuel was loading up, and I was shooting 3ft. flames out my exhaust. If ya have access to all of them, why not try going colder and see what works best?
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01-08-2010
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#4
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Unsure resident asshole
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MN
Drives: '92 Eagle TalonTSI w/many mods
Posts: 3,696
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
With that setup, I'd run some 7's. Start there.
__________________
Black 1GB Mafia #1
744AWHP/526TQ-Shootout mode
639.6AWHP/452TQ-DB's dyno
I wanna go fast.
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01-08-2010
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#5
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R U DTF bro?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oak Point, TX
Drives: C8 Stingray Z51
Posts: 20,620
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
7's for sure.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26
I agree with Kracka.
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01-08-2010
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#6
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Saint Paul, MN.
Drives: E36
Posts: 2,269
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
I shouldve added that I ended up sticking with 7's.
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01-08-2010
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#7
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
I'd say hell no to 9's. With those mods, i'd stick with 6's or 7's.
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01-08-2010
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#8
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
Try running non projected spark plugs, they help prevent pre-detonation as the ground electrode is shorter and is less likely to get hot and pre-ignite the fuel.
Id go with BR7ES's at .026 gap
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01-08-2010
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#9
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Willmar, MN
Drives: 91GSX; 98 GSX; 92 Tsi AWD; Kawasaki ZR7
Posts: 319
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
I second the BR7ES @ .026.
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01-08-2010
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#10
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
Or get a Dynatek Arc-2 CDI
I just got mine today, I will post a followup how well it runs.
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01-08-2010
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#11
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'2of9'
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Inver Grove Heights
Drives: Racer Van V6
Posts: 2,125
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
i've got the 7s right now.
__________________
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
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01-08-2010
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#12
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackrosenova400
Or get a Dynatek Arc-2 CDI
I just got mine today, I will post a followup how well it runs.
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Have they fixed their issues? The newer ones were sucking. I think I got a newer one because it didn't do squat. Mine ran the same with it plugged in or not.
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01-08-2010
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#13
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The land of the next-gen HMMWV
Drives: A BMW
Posts: 1,875
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
I'd run the hottest plug you can run without your car blowing the spark out or cutting out under boost, for the aforementioned reasons.
__________________
Style's automotive engineer
Sponsored by DB Performance (dbptuning.com)
A dsm, a bimmer, a DORGE CUMMINZ, and a non running DSM race car... for now.
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01-08-2010
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#14
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Coon Rapids
Drives: 07' Z06, 16' Beta 300RR
Posts: 804
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
I would check the gap of your current plugs first... it should be somewhere in the .026"-.030" range. I worked on a gst one time that someone had put the NA plugs in there gapped at .046" It ran fine till it started making boost, then it would buck and miss bad.
__________________
-When in doubt, Moar RPM.
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01-09-2010
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#15
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MSP
Drives: 2007 BMW 335i Coupe
Posts: 609
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
I ended up going to NAPA and picking up a pair of NGK BPR7ES'. Thanks guys.
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01-09-2010
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#16
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
No kidding? I installed mine, seemed to idle exactly the same as before. Air fuels being pig rich in the cold when first staring up. I havent driven it yet as I dont drive my car in the winter. This kinda sucks now that you say that, not im worried.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halon
Have they fixed their issues? The newer ones were sucking. I think I got a newer one because it didn't do squat. Mine ran the same with it plugged in or not.
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01-10-2010
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#17
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At-Least-It's-White-Again
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
ya, 9s are crappy unless you're a big baller big power car. I've had to get them before because 8's were out of stock and I had to keep doing pulls to clean 'em up every 20 miles or so... then finally just found some 8s to put in. This was on c16 also, so 7's are probably whats right for you.
__________________
'04 Honda Ricer: stock
Done fuckin' with cars but I will snap some photos of yours for now! =)
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01-10-2010
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#18
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Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackrosenova400
No kidding? I installed mine, seemed to idle exactly the same as before. Air fuels being pig rich in the cold when first staring up. I havent driven it yet as I dont drive my car in the winter. This kinda sucks now that you say that, not im worried.
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Yeah, they seemed to be the best Ignition Amp that was still at an affordable price there for awhile, and then I got word that something must have changed because the newer ones were not performing well at all. I had to run such a small gap for the stock ignition to work (if I recall I had to go down to somewhere around .018 or .020). So I was hoping the Dynatek would allow me to get back to the stock gap, but nope. It was missfiring like crazy on DB's dyno. The next day I dropped the gap back down to like .020 and it was fine, and that was with the Dynatek. Bunch of crap.
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01-10-2010
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#19
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
Well your post there scared me a little so I went and did my own test. I pulled the injector harness off of number 4 cylinder and then pulled the spark plug. I then attached the plug back onto the wire and grounded the plug, and stuck the plug in front of my windshield so I can watch.
Fired the car and the spark almost looked like a flame. So it looked pretty powerful. Well as it was running the spark plug slipped down the windshield and into the engine bay a bit, my ground clip fell off my plug and it started arcing against my hood! It must have been a good 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch and it looked just like those globe things you touch the outside of and the the arc moves towards your hand. It then kinda fell down below the intake, I tried to grab it carfully, well it gave me a couple of good shocks, lol. Im gonna have to say mines working
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01-10-2010
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#20
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Sonic Champion!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Litchfield
Drives: VA STI
Posts: 1,793
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Re: Upgrading from NGK BPR9ES from BPR6ES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackrosenova400
Try running non projected spark plugs, they help prevent pre-detonation as the ground electrode is shorter and is less likely to get hot and pre-ignite the fuel.
Id go with BR7ES's at .026 gap
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This.
When I had my DSM, I ran that plug and it worked great to help with a little knock I was receiving.
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