[john]

I think that they are sleepers to some people. Even a stock 15 sec dsm can beat most hondas. For honda performance, you pretty much have to do an engine swap or rebuild and add on NOSSS or a turbo kit to make any decent power. I went to rf once to spectate this year and saw several sport compact cars with a turbo or nitrous running high 15's. Most hondas are all dreaming about a GSR engine swap or some other vtec engine that they dont worry about non honda compeditors. I saw a turbo civic take down a SRT4 this weekend though. BTW, I am talking about hondas because that is mostly what I see race.