From ashes
 

As many of you know I blew a rod. It wasn't covered under warranty as they claimed it was a result of an over rev stored on the ACD. So, my choices were spend about 8.5 (including install) to have Mitsu install a new stock motor. Or, as I've decided, for just a little bit more I could have built 2.0.

I have things priced out, but I wanted to get some opinions on things where I had multiple options.

-Rebuild: Stock block/crank, wiseco 9 pistons, and MAP x beam from map. I can get the gaskets, oil pan, and oil pump at work for cheaper.

-Fuel: DW65 pump. FIC 1100's or MAP 1000's for injectors? Going E85.

-Exhaust: MAP Downpipe and Testpipe, with my existing Magnaflw cat-back.

-Turbo: Sheides has his BBX that he's looking to sell, that or looking to get an EF2. Your thoughts? I know the BBX will be capable of more power, but I'm really looking to cap out at 450, which is where the EF2 gets me. My concern is about what happens with long term maxing out of the EF2 vs. going with something that I won't be pushing the limits of.

-Clutch: Exedy stage 1 or ACT stage 1?

-Boost: Can someone please explain to me the big differences between and Grimmspeed MBCS and a 3 port?

Also any thoughts as a whole too would be appreciated.

Re: From ashes
 

Easiest way around the EF2 issue, EF3. :)

Re: From ashes
 

To make 450awhp on my or Ron's dyno you will need bigger injectors and probably more fuel pump, you could do it on a Dynojet AWD though. Maybe a better clutch.

There is MBC and EBCS. MBC is a manual boost controller. EBCS is an electronic boost solenoid. The Grimmspeed EBCS is a 3-port.

Re: From ashes
 

How big to I need to go on the injectors and pump do you think?

Re: From ashes
 

LOL you are the only person I have ever heard use the term "blew a rod".

I say EF2, Walbro 400, ACT 6 puck, hybrid 3 port/MBC boost control.

Re: From ashes
 

Can someone explain the benefits of Manual vs Electronic boost control?

Re: From ashes
 

Re: From ashes
 

:google:

Re: From ashes
 

As much as I'd love to sell you my BBX your fuel system listed isn't going to cut it unless you only run it at ~22psi or something. You will need either a larger fuel pump or a BAP, maybe both. I ran a DW300 w/ BAP and FIC 1680's and it was a dandy setup with the BBX...now that the Walbro400 (E85 version) is out I'd honestly slap one of those in with a boomba rail & fuel pressure gauge and see how far it took me on stock voltage/stock feed line.

MBC is a ball and spring, reactive boost control setup. A BCS will release a pre-programmed amount duty-cycle (based on RPM and TPS) and if boost is not hitting target thresholds it will add/subtract duty-cycle. In general, a MBC will boost to a certain boost psi and then taper down a few by redline and a BCS can be programmed for a nice flat boost curve from boost onset all the way to redline.

Re: From ashes
 

450+ Dynojet would be easy with an EF2 on E85, 500 would even be possible with the right setup.

Re: From ashes
 

My only advice is if you are only looking at making 450hp, mod smart & keep it simple. Don't over design/engineer where you don't have to.

Re: From ashes
 

Since you are going to go into debt on this thing, would not recommend big horsepower's until you have the money and time to afford another engine. Like Halon said, keep it simple rebuild. Stay stock turbo on the upgraded internals, upgrade your clutch during the rebuild (saving money there on install), run on pump until you can afford to switch to e85 and slowly upgrade\mod from there.

Re: From ashes
 

Hate to say it, but I'm going to jump on this train. One step at a time, son. If you do it right from the get-go, it's not like you can throw any money away by stretching the build out.

Re: From ashes
 

^What those two said.

Re: From ashes
 

X3 on that also

Re: From ashes
 

My advice is to get every credit card you can find and max all those fuckers out!


;)

Re: From ashes
 

DONE! New plan, buying a GTR on credit cards!

Re: From ashes
 

Order with MAP complete.

MAP 2.0 with core.
Wiseco 9 pistons
Manley H beam
MAP 2000CC injectors
Walbro 400
MAP Downpie with o2 eliminator
MAP Test pipe
MAP EF3 conversion, using existing Turbo
ETS FMIC
Competition Clutch stage 2, full organic plate (non-puck)
Grimmspeed 3 port MBCS

Going to get a couple other little things from work here since they're OEM (gaskets, oil pump/squirters, etc)

Re: From ashes
 

2000cc injectors? 1000cc injectors will easily support an EF2 on pump, and be able to take it pretty far on E85 with a decent pump backing them up.

Re: From ashes
 

Room to grow if I want to later on. Can always tune them down.

Re: From ashes
 

How's the drivability, start-up, and idle of them? IMO, you're better off buying injectors for your current needs, then replacing them later on if it turns out you need them since you'd be retuning anyway.

Re: From ashes
 

Do you mean Wiseco 9.0:1 pistons?

Re: From ashes
 

Good to hear you have a plan to move forward.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone see any cracking on the Evo X Wiseco's like were sometimes seen on the DSM ones?

Re: From ashes
 

2000cc injectors and a full face organic clutch???

Those two don't really seem to go together but good luck on the build!

Re: From ashes
 

Actually, it takes some work to tune the 2000s down even with E85. High imp Bosch 2000s/2150s/2200s/etc tune pretty decent with a full standalone. But even though those style of injectors respond well, factory ECUs do have some problems with them just because of size. Even with a standalone, they often still have to run rich at idle on a small displacement per cylinder motors, since their min pulsewidth often gives an AFR in the 11.0-13.0 range at typical idle airflow.

The new FIC 1600s would be perfect, but they won't be out until early next year sometime. The current 1600s, 1650s, 1680s all have undesirable problems.

Re: From ashes
 

Copy and paste from EvoMN, just saw this now, but I think its mainly agreeing with most people on here.

I wouldn't get the 2000cc injectors...even on E85, you will not love them. They are livable but a 1600cc injector or smaller will be the ticket. Since you won't drive yours in winter I would try to hold out until spring for the new FIC injectors, they will have 1400cc ones that will be more than enough for your setup. Hell, the ID1000cc's or if you want MAP1000ccc injectors should be enough. I ran my DW1000's to 500whp on e85 with a double pumper and AFPR.

I know it seems smart to not have to buy injectors ever again but frankly the smallest ones you can get away with is the smart thing to do for drivability.

Also, I agree, get cams now if you ever plan to...

Re: From ashes
 

FYI all the cool kids have 2000s

Re: From ashes
 

Murlow, when you say "liveable" what do you mean? I guess I'm not familiar with what having larger injectors would do if I'm not utilizing them to their fullest.

Re: From ashes
 

Those injectors are just massive is the problem. You have to do special hacks to the factory ECU to try to get it to be able to even have a chance of running those injectors at idle and low airflow. It isn't just a matter of changing the injector scaling and deadtimes like you can do with even a big 1600cc injector.

Re: From ashes
 

^Yep, what Shane said.

You will just have an overly rich idle, you will have to run in open loop all the time so you won't have trim correction, you will probably bog at certain rpms/loads, possible die coming to a stoplight etc etc...oh and traffic won't be fun I am sure.

One thing I have learned is fueling is everything to a smooth ride. After months of farting around with every table in my tune the fueling is finally where its supposed to be at almost every spot in the rpm range, no unexpected changes following MAF vs MAP etc things and the car runs great. You will have issues with the 2000cc ones.

Even Tephra on his 2.5L evo x on E85 didn't get them to run perfect.

Re: From ashes
 

+1 on 1000cc injectors, plenty.

Boo for no BBX :)

Re: From ashes
 

That said, MAP 1000cc or FIC 1100s?

Re: From ashes
 

I had realy good luck running 1650's and a peak and hold injector driver which low impedance injectors are supposed to use.

Re: From ashes
 

Which are cheaper?

Re: From ashes
 

Is the car going to be running anytime soon? Why not wait and get the new FIC 1600's like Shane suggested?

Re: From ashes
 

I have nothing but fantastic things to say about my ID 1000cc injectors. Never once have they started, idled, or ran anything less than factory perfect. They're expensive, but in my experience they're worth the extra cost. If you want cheapest get MAP's, if you want the best get ID's. They all start out as the same Bosch cores, but I'm sure the modification procedures do vary. The one guy I personally know who tried the FIC 1100's had trouble getting them to start and idle properly.

Re: From ashes
 

I have the FIC 900's, which are supposed to be the same as the ID1000. I love em.

Re: From ashes
 

I'd get the MAP 1000's. Should dial in identical to the ID1000's and fic 1100's and they are much cheaper.

Re: From ashes
 

x2

Re: From ashes
 

Identical to the IDXXXX!

plz read

http://www.injectordynamics.com/size14.html

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...or-clinic-fic/