I got an idea for a product and am wondering what you guys think before I blow a bunch of money on a patent.A timer that delays the ignition for a couple of seconds to allow the starter to crank and pump fresh oil to turbo,bearings,etc. before the engine fires.Maybe add a turbo timer and make it a plug in installation and some low battery protection.Good? bad? already been done?

That is a very good idea, I was thinking of that last year and wondered why nobody had done that yet.

It is an awesome product idea, we would carry it, and it should sell within the 3s market nicely :).
What would you use for delay/etc...?
never heard of it being done?
would this put extra wear on the starter? (excessive cranking)
great idea :banana:

1) 3 seconds should do it

2) of course, but whats worse...and oil starved cold started engine or going to the junkyard and dropping $10 for a new starter?

A lot of big diesel equipment actually use an electric pump to prime the oil system before starting.

1) 3 seconds should do it

2) of course, but whats worse...and oil starved cold started engine or going to the junkyard and dropping $10 for a new starter? [/b][/quote]
I know, just presenting questions he is going to be asked.
Actually i was looking into that 'electric oil pump' idea for my own use, but if someone makes something plug and play, i'll buy it cause im lazy/busy :).

Not a bad idea, but im thinking that the engine is cranking over without oil pressure anyway at first. Does it even matter whether or not combustion is taking place?

Good idea, the McLaren F1 doesn't start till 4 complete revolutions or something like that. So like 2 seconds would be good in my opinon. But I'm a cheap person and would probably figure it out for my self rather than buy one.

that is true.
I think im back to the electric oil pump/prime idea that was being tossed around 3si.

I would think you would still build oil pressure,I already made a prototype, I'll have to test that tommorrow.Your starter only cranks the engine at a few hundred RPM as apposed to 800+ when it is running.

Anybody know of a where I can get the plug in turbo timer harnesses quick locally?

i love it, first you make a prototype then you ask.
maybe do some testing of it after it works, check with a real oil pressure gauge with and without use of 'primer' and maybe give an elapsed time. To bad you couldn't retap the gauge somewhere far away (head) from the oil pump, run a series to prove it helps..
Cvd's point is the engine still spins regardless.

Elite should have some harnesses in stock, if they don't I know Archer in Duluth does and if you order by 4pm you should see it the next business day.

I made the prototype after I posted the question.I was thinking of testing right at the turbo?or maybe on the head?

It'd be nice, but the bearings already have a oil film on them from the last time the car ran. If your oil isn't old and lost it's viscosity, it should cling to internal parts pretty nicely. That would explain why our motors consistently can go 200K miles without being rebuilt. Bearing materials, build quality and better oils have improved tremendously since the 60's, when 100K miles was considered a good time to rebuild if it made it that far.

I don't know how long it takes from the point the oil pump spins til the number four bearings see ~80 psi of oil pressure. Probably less than a second.

This is a concept that has been around for years and is done in a different way by many domestic cars already, as well as for some other reasons. Alot of the V8 cars running a ton of ignition advance run 2 switches, one for the starter and one for the ignition. They push a button to run the starter to get the engine rpms as high as the starter will take it, then flip a toggle for the ignition system so the engine will start easier. Priming the oil pump etc is just a side benefit for them. They had to do that type of thing because there were no coputers controling timing advance, but that has obiously changed now.

I do think this is a good idea for our cars as long as the timing was easily adjustable. I would definately tie one into my wireing system. Alamo motorsports has the best deals on TT harnesses that I have seen, and the shipping is pretty quick.

An accusump does what your talking about and also will keep oil pressure up durring high g corners and such where oil might slosh away from the pick up. Road racers use them all the time. Don't know about the 1/4 milers though.

Accusump

Those accumulators have been around for over a decade I wonder why you don't see or hear much about them.

fuel will still be getting pumped in, so it might be a little smokey when you start up

Which will then gum up the engine..

CVD point about whether combustion and no combustion (crank while no igniton is on)makes a huge difference is what i think should be thought about. I dont know if its such a big deal how much longer will a turbo survive or an engine survive witht his mechanism applied.. maybe from new would be ok but high miles motor will not be worth it.

Unless you have a carburator, no fuel will be pumped in, the injectors will not pulse without ignition power.

Injectors spray if you crank the engine.. it wouldnt start if it didnt spray as you cranked. Thats why when you check compression you take out that fuse for the fuel pump.

The Injectors run off ignition power and so does the ECU that supplies pulse to them, so no ignition=no fuel.The only thing that would be working is the starter, nothing else.The whole idea is to delay ignition power for a few seconds while the starter cranks.

i dont think that cranking the starter is the way to go. I dont see any benefit unless you use something other than the factory oil pump.

When you crank the motor, you crank the motor. It doesnt matter if the injectors and/or plugs are firing. you are still cranking the motor over.

i wouldnt worry about the sudden jump to 750rpm either. when you start your car, it makes a few rotations at 250rpm before it fires anyway, then catches and swings up to 750-1000. i think that the starting process already does just as good of a job getting oil to the rest of motor as your idea would.

A seperate pump run electrically might do something, but is it even remotely worth it?

Chris

I'd rather build oil pressure at 200 rpm than at 750+rpm.I also refuse to believe that this idea would have no benefit, but I could be wrong.If I could take this idea and add a turbo timer to it and sell it for the price of any other turbo timer(Around $100), I think it would be worth it to buy it.At the very least, it is worth investigating further.Thats just me though, I'm always looking for a money making idea.Anybody know how the oil pumps work? are they centrifugal pumps? I've never torn apart an oil pump.