Okay so latly i have been hearing a lot about the 4g64 swap and how it sppols turbos better. Okay thats all nice and good but im wondering what would be so nice about that? I mean you can't rev it as high as say a build stock 6 bolt right? Correct me if im wrong on this.. Pros/Cons shoot away.

think of a 4G63.

now add 20% displacement.

get it?

no?

too bad.

I'll let you know how it works soon.

A properly built 2.4L will turn 9500rpm with no problems. The hp goes up a little, but the torque goes up alot. Most DSM trannys don't like to shift above 8500rpm anyway. So why not make as much power as you can in the rpm range that works the best for our cars, especially a street car. Imagine having a .60 trim turbo hitting full boost at 3000rpm. On average a 2.4L will spool a turbo up 1000rpm sooner. And think about how much better just the normal, non-boost driving will be on the street.

As CVD said, add 20% to a current 2.0L 4g63 making 500hp. The 4g64 would see a increase of power up to 600hp just based on the increase in displacement if the set-up allows for the additional air/fuel/exhaust flow. But the torque would increase at a higher ratio.

Could someone list out the different components used to build a 4G64? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there both 6 bolt and 7 bolt 4G64s?

There's a ton of info out on the 2.4's, you're best off to read up on the NABR archives, nobody wants to write it all out again. Here's the basics though:

20% more displacement, that's always good. The rod ratio is worse, but they've been tested to at least 8500 rpms with no problems. They won't rev as high as a comparable 2.0 liter, but they don't necessarily have to because of the extra power and torque at lower rpms. The 6-bolt variants use almost all stock Mitsu parts so the engineering is already done. Pistons and rods are readily available and no clearancing of the block is needed. And best of all, they allow you to use a larger turbo which decreases exhaust backpressure and ultimately makes a more efficient engine with a lot of power.

So you use stock internals from a 150hp 2.4 motor and can run 500+ horses just fine without breaking things.

the internals are pretty similar. you can make the same amount of power as a 4G63, its just easier to do.

But you need to put a 4G63 head on it. that is what makes it different from cranking out that kind of power on a spyder or some such.

He said that pistons and rods were readily available, he said nothing about using the stock ones. The 6 bolts do come with big rods though. From the people I have talked to, you will see a 10% increase in HP and a 20-25% increase in torque.

Like Steve said, they will spin up to 8.5k with the normal rods, or 9.5k with the long rods like Vicious has. What do you care anyway, Peter? Don't you shift at 5k at the track? :stick:

I don't think anyone is reving a 2.4 to 9500 RPMs, the rod ratio and piston speeds are quite bad. Running a 2.4 at 8000RPMs is like running a 2.0 at over 9000RPMs. Marco supposedly runs his 2.4s out to 8500. You won't necessarily get more power from the 2.4 versus a 2.0. You have a have a turbo big enough that the 2.0 isn't taking full advantage of it in the first place. No can't make more horsepower than the turbo supports not matter how big the motor is. For example, if you stuck a T25 that flows around 245cfms on a V8 that flow 500cfm in NA form, the T25 isn't going to do anything.

And no the 150hp internals of the stock 2.4s will not do. You need to replace the rods and pistons. And put a 4G63 head on it.

The biggest gain is in spoolup. You can run a larger turbo and make more power without having to rev it to the moon. Spool a 60-1 like it's a 20G...

In what cars do you find the 4g63?

Ruh Roh! :bounce:

Uhh.. no I go up to 6... theres no power after that anyway... on my car.

I dont launch hard if thats what you were getting at. :razz2: Ill launch hard when i have a 4 bolt and its not my daily driver... back off.

Chill out! I was just giving you shit. Notice the little guy poking the other one with a stick!

LOL, You ladies need a time out card. HAHAHAHA

Even with the long rods, the rod ratio is still in the 1.5's, the difference is so slight, I'm not even going to bother. I've never heard of anybody going higher than 8500. I'm building one because I still want a streetable car, so spool is a concern, running 9's is not.

Steve, are you keeping your 60-1 or going with something different? What does that turbo spool at with the 2.0? With a 2.4 it should spool something like a 50 trim right?

Steve, are you keeping your 60-1 or going with something different? What does that turbo spool at with the 2.0? With a 2.4 it should spool something like a 50 trim right? [/b][/quote]
For now at least, although I'd switch to the 8cm exhaust housing once I got the car tuned right. I was hitting 30 psi by about 4000 rpms.

I see, I am anxious to see how that 2.4 spools that big GT 56 trim that Jet has. My god that turbo is a big bastard, he showed me that turbo last night and it was actually scary looking.... :lol: So much for his 3" buschur cold air intake since that turbo has a 4" inlet!!!!!! Time to just throw a filter right on the turbo and call it good huh?

A little info on the 7 bolt 4g64...2.4 liters, found in 94-98 galants is SOHC form. It uses all 2G parts, front cover, etc. except for the cam gears and timing belt which are replaced by '94 galant DOHC components. 5 cooling holes need to be plugged on the block. Rods are the same as 2G rods. Only one case of crankwalk I have seen, and that was due to a build error. There are no oil squirters, but according to Magnus they are not needed...

This is a good way for 2G guys to get away from crankwalk, gain .4 liters, fast spoolup, and massive torque all without doing a 6 bolt swap.

And it'll be fun to beat some of the 1G guys and tell them you are still running a 7 bolt ;)

I do have one question, assuming your turbo was large enough, wouldn't the same boost yield a much higher airflow, and therefore a substancial increase in HP while keeping knock and EGT's at a minimum?

BTW, I have heard of a few people hitting 8k+ on the 2.3/2.4s with the stock valve train...

Chris

I wouldnt know, but i would think that running the same boost on a 4G64 would require slightly more airflow, which could put the turbo outside of its efficiency range and create more knock, if anything at all.

CVD, quick! Where is the cracka-wacka?!?

As long as the turbo/head/cams can support more airflow and be somewhat efficient at the boost/airflow level, then yes it should make more HP. There is possibly more potential with the 2.0 or 2.14 though, just because you can rev them to the moon and another way to get more power out of a turbo is to rev the motor high, if the cams/intake/head can keep making power.

Ok so here's what I've put together for the more newbies like myself and some PLEASE correct me if I am wrong with any of the basic facts:
(Note: I want to first give credit to "v8klla" and 98TSiAWD{from Tuners} for the majority of this information that I am listing below)
To build a 7 bolt 4G64 to bolt into a 2G------
'94-'98 SOHC Galant Block or '94 DOHC Galant GS Block
----To use the SOHC block there are 5 oil passages that need to
be plugged
'94 Galant GS DOHC Cam Sprokets
'94 Galant GS DOHC Head Gasket
'94 Galant GS DOHC Timing Belt
Either 4G63 or 46G4 7 Bolt Timing Belt Tensioner
2G Head or 1G head, using a 1G head will require the same swapping techniques as the typical 1G onto 2G swap
Still use the 4G63 Motor Mounts

Now my question is that I see everyone talking about Wiseco Piston part number bla bla and Joe Blow rods part numbers bla bla for this setup, but is there is there a 100% OEM setup that can be used for the 4G64 setup?
i.e.- crank, rods, pistons.........

2.4L at 8.5k would be equal to a 2.0L at 10.2k or a 2.14 at 9572RPM as far as air flow goes.

Why not 7500? thats not enough for your 2.4?

You can use the 2.4L SOHC 7-bolt out of the Spyder also.

You aren't going to get 20% more flow just because the motor displacement is 20% bigger. You would need a cam, head and intake manifold that could provide the 2.4l motor with the same VE abilities as a 2.0l. A setup that gives a 2.0l motor a VE of 95-100% might not be able to provide a 2.4l with the same kind of efficiencies. Some people think the 2.4l requires a more aggressive cam then what we usually run on the 2.0s. You would definately want a much larger intake plenum volume also.

The new thought is that HKS 272's actually hold a 2.4 back. The Crower 414's are slightly better. Maybe I'll just build a 2.14 and shift at 10,500. :bounce:

Very generally speaking, a bigger bore = more HP and a longer stroke = more torque. These 2.4's are mainly strokers (bore is a tad bigger) so you will get more torque gain than HP gain.

If anyone is into V8's just think of the 302/351W's or 327/350/383's. Build them equal and HP won't be drastically different, but the torque will be.

Bikes are also another good example. Their engines are oversquare. That is the bore size is larger than their stroke. This allows higher HP at higher RPM, but their torque is crap because of the extremely short stroke.

Im cool, I just dont take sarcasm too well... heh. ;)

Its no big deal I just wonder where you can come off saying why do i care at all... I was just asking about how much power the stuff can take, not how high it can rev. But now I know you need all different internals....

Great input guys! Yeah i had been doing a lot of reading latly on the two. I personally had thought that if you had a 6bolt than why would you need a 2.4L but steve/goat cleared that up ("I'm building one because I still want a streetable car, so spool is a concern, running 9's is not". Other good points were tossed around such as it was more of a 2g upgrade which i think it somewhat correct. All in all if i had a 6 bolt i would keep it build it up for high rev.. Or 7bolt of wanted to tried something new etc. I would do the 2.4L. The money issue comes into hand if you ask me... even though some of you are building nice 4g64's for pretty cheap...

Whats the cost of the full engine(4g64) costing everyone, est?

Thanks agian for the info guys, I knew you guys knew your SHIT! :dsmrule:

Ahhh, that is the whole problem. 90% of my jokes are sarcastic. Most of the people on here give each other shit all the time, join in! We don't actually mean everything we say.


Now for some 4g64 content:

Wiseco pistons $400
Eagle rods $325 (both from Elite)
Cam gears $50

I think pretty much everything else that gets replaced, should be replaced on a thorough rebuild anyway (front case, water pump, etc).

What kind of motors are in the dodge avengers? Would those work?

The newer ones have a V6 i belive...

Parts only, about the same as rebuilding a 2.0.

I've had a couple people ask me about building a 2.4 for them, I might be interested in building another 2 at the same time as mine, which might even save a bit on machine work. I'd have to figure out a price though.

*Cough* *Cough* ;)

There are a few using the "SA" version of the pistons (9.5:1) along with lower boost to make an engine with 300 whp @ 6k and 275 tq from 3500-6000 at 13 psi. The 6 bolts come with big rods, so throw the wiseco's on them would be the least I would say to do. The stock pistons are pretty fragile.

HMM! need some DsMers opions. Either i can go with the the 2.4L or i can go with a stock 6bolt... I would be building them both up.. Now i want a 91 cause of the slick looking front... but it lacks the 4 bolt rear. So basicly i could go 6 bolt or 2.4L with a 3 bolt rear... (it would be made into a 4 bolt in time to come)

I think that makes sense it kinda late...

unless you are 100% in tune with your car's drivetrain, you'll want a 4 bolt rear end LONG before a built motor.
You can go with either motor setup..
2.0's like to rev more.
2.4's are torquey usually and should spool a turbo faster.
Both motors have pros and cons, it all depends on your goals.

Goals consist of a high to mid 11 on pump gas :bounce: