Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Well, since the car challenge thread is getting polluted with school and degree questions, lets just argue that stuff here.

Personally, I have a secondary education from Dunwoody welding and I wouldn't do it again. It never effected my income ever in that field. I have no formal education in automotive which has also not effected that income and I made 80K and turned down jobs for 6 figures in network administration for about ten years. All self tought. If you know what you are doing it in most tech fields and can represent yourself correctly, you do not have to have a degree. So it isn't required. I have hired and fired more college educated idiots than you can imagine. Is that the law and does it apply to everyone, no. If you have natural talent and go to school, you will likely be better off. If you have no natural talent and go to school, you could end up getting in the door of many jobs and find yourself out of work a month later when they realize your capabilities.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

I do not belive a degree is necessary. If i had to do it over again, i dont think i would go to school.
I know i could be doing the same thing, making the same money, at the same place, if i didnt have anything.
How i would acually get a job, im not sure. if you are going to be working for someone, it may be necessary. if you venture out yourself, you are fine.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Speaking in the tech field, I don't really believe it is necesary to hold a degree, but for the majority of the remaining job fields, I think it is. Many jobs won't even consider you unless you meet their requirements, IE a degree. In order to 'represent yourself' without a degree, you'd have to be extremmely talented AND pretty lucky. Even though you may constantly get fired, having a degree at least gives you the oppertunity to get in the door in the first place.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Depends on who you are and what kind of job your going for.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

do you NEED a degree these days? the simple answer is no. though some of us have aspirations that can't be attained WITHOUT a degree.

i live a very comfortable life in a middle class family, all provided by my parents. neither of them have college degrees, but decades of expierience in their respective fields. they have from day one told me they would help me out in any way they could towards getting a college degree. why is that? because at their jobs, advancing beyond a certain point requires that expensive piece of paper that says " i worked hard to get this, and i should be paid accordingly." at some places degrees mean nothing, and at others it is in the company policy exactly how far a non-collegiate can go on the ladder

some kids choose to get degrees that are worth almost nothing. things like: communications, philosophy, dance, etc. spending your money on shit like that is a waste.

i choose engineering (mechanical) as my major, and to be honest its hard as fuck. calc, physics, statics, dynamics, electrical networks, differential equations, the damn list goes on and on. NONE of these classes can be just cruised through, you have to study and work at it way more than you want to. but you know what? when you get through it all (eventually) you have a degree in something useful and unique. you know you won't be making a living off of your back and knuckles, and the base pay is outstanding.

to sum it up, if you have goals and the drive to do something with your life, yes a degree is a good idea. if you don't really care what you do as long as you have enough $$ to just chill back and enjoy life, then its probably not for you :)

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

You can fulfill a good life without a degree but depending on goals and what field ou want to work in you might need one to even step in the door unless your uncles step brother is the owner. I see many places requiring degrees in the future that people would not dream needing a degree.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Well as stated at the beginning of this, I have made decent money and turned down an income of 120K a year because my wife at the time didn't want to sell our house in Cambridge and move to Bursnville, she was more content with me driving that far each day. The position required me to be that close to respond to network issues quicker. When I turned it down, I left my Job at 80K because I didn't want to deal with people I had once hired being above me. The owner of that business was not a friend or relative or otherwise and Network administration and Unix administration requires a lot of knowledge. It doesn't have to come from school if you can back up what you claim. 4 years after I started working there, I went and took the Cisco Certification tests and had no trouble passing them with almost perfect scores. They were not needed and none of the people I worked for as a consultant after that or was ever employed by cared about the Certs. So paper is not always required. I started a welding and machine shop when i was 22 that in it's first year did 335K in business, owned it for 3.5 years and sold it. Point of that is that you can have high goals and not need a degree to attain them. I quite going to Dunwoody for welding after the first year as it wasn't teaching me anything beyond what I knew and the degree didn't matter.

Of course I don't think everyone in the same situations would do the same, but I do stand by the fact that a degree is far from a requirement to get a good high paying job without laying on your back scraping your knuckles. It also doesn't preclude you from making a very good living. I would venture a guess that the majority of successful CEO's in this country did not hold any degrees before they started their companies.

I would actually say getting a degree is a bit like following a recipe for performance with a DSM. You can do it with the right amount of time and money, it is clearly defined and well proven to work if you follow through and when you are done, you will be about the same as everyone else who also followed the "recipe". The guys that break records and turn heads are at the front of the pack from pioneering ways to go faster, creative people with proper motivation etc. Similar to those who invent products, start companies etc.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

A degree is well worth the money these days. A degree gives you more options in life. Which for me is something I need/want. Expect the worst, hope for the best seems to come to mind.

As for the whole UTI vs. wyotech. I have seen where wyotech is and let me tell you that not a lot of people could handel it out there. In fact I have met numerous people that went to wyotech and now goto UTI. Why did they come to UTI after wyotech. Well I have heard a couple of different answer. One is the area. Sapposedly there is nothin to do and its riddled with very red necks. The girls will ride you. The big one was the way they teach though. Fast and not very direct/detailed. The one thing that got them all was, the hype.

Good points to wyotech are: Cheap, Out in the middle of nowhere (some people like that). 8 hour days (cram 8 hours of info in a day wouldn't be to bad. Also used to mimic a working day).

All of my info is based off of what students at UTI have said. Also a instructer.

So for any of you future auto technicians I would highly recommend UTI to anyone trying to set themselfs apart from the rest.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Instead of goind to a technical school, you guys should go back to 1st grade and learn how to spell correctly.Even with the best schooling on your resume, if you spell like a 5 year old, you're not getting the job.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

its all going to be just like that. I've been told be a student that went to uti that it sucked there as well. Yes the town blows!!! it plain and simple sucks I wont dissagree. It helps you focus on school. they dont cram things down your skull, but they get the lessons done and they do it well. They are very direct and detailed. The only want students dont get it is if they dont pay attention which half the Kids don't.. I have stayed above 90% my whole stay here and its been hard at times but if you pay attention in class, and ask questions you can do alright. I also have had a long long time of experience. I've been under the hood of cars since I was about 8 years old with my old man. He was a master ase certified tech for years! It surely does help having him around and he tought me a lot well before I made my selection of school and profession. Hes now a St. Paul fight fighter because well lets face it being a tech KILL's your body. I would come back here anytime. plus its free to return anytime you want.

Kevin

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Well, one thing I would say is whatever school you are going to, you should be doing everything you can to learn all they have to offer and if the instructors will let you do more, go fo it. That would seem obvious, but most people don't do it. The degree won't matter if you can't impress them with the work you can do, regardless of what big name school you go to. Don't limit yourself to what they teach and in fact question everything that isn't perfectly clear or logical. Instructors in any school are not perfect, if they don't maintain an open mind to ideas you may have, you should be careful of them. A true sign of knowledge is realizing you can learn from anyone. Most of the instructors I have met over the years were too closed minded and set in their ways for me to trust.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Very well put Mike! I couldn't agree more. I ask questions and make sure I understand the logic, and everything I'm learning to the fullest!

Kevin

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Thats a good point.Too often the education you receive is heavily biased by the educators.The best education comes from when you learn by your own means, at your own rate.You can learn more grabbing some tools and going at it for a day, than you could spending a month in school.

I don't even have a high school diploma, and I don't feel disadvantaged in the least.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

I would say that a degree is not necissary but doesn't ever hurt. Some trade jobs do not matter if you have a degree or not. I will be finishing my general 2 year degree at the end of this semester. I am VERY happy I am going to college. I have learned a lot or knowledge in just the two years. In HS, I was the kid who didn't really give a shit. I hardly squeaked out a B average to get on the Honor Role. I will be graduating with High Honors this year (3.5+ GPA). For the first time in my life, I achieved strait A's last semester taking 17 credits and working on average 35 hours per week.

In college, I started taking classes I cared about and studied my ass off. I have learned a lot about business, accounting, economics, and other classes I had no interest in before. I am very interested in them now. I was never a reader and dreaded a reading assignment in class all through my life. I have now read a few books due to general interest (The Millionaire Next Door and Rich Dad Poor Dad to name a couple).

Just the two years I have taken in general college courses at Normandale has changed my whole career path. I planned on being an accountant and making a decent amount of money sitting behind a desk all day. I was a very quiet person who seemed to go with the flow. You all know that has changed quite a bit ;)

I now am dead set on owning my own business. I love meeting new people and gaining a greater understanding of the world. I am most likely going to quit my job soon at ACE when my back heals to get a sales job so I can improve my selling and persuasion skills. I will probly get an internship in the summer and possibly start up a very small business. I am only looking to start a company with a very low overhead. Right now, I am contemplating desicions for next year. I may apply to transfer to the Carlson School of Management. Very good school and very expensive (would put me in great debt. I have paid my way so far but no way I could keep up.)

I have to decide weather I have solid grounds to open my own business or go to college. College is going to put me way into the hole but in will better my chances in becoming a better euntreprenuer. If I did not go to school and complete my MBA, I could have made a lot of money.

Most people come out of college in great debt (obviously) and a person who jumps strait into the workforce can start building a net worth. I have to decide.

The decision of college is an important one that should not be taken lightly by anyone. We are in a changing world. Our partents did not need an education when they grew up. My mom for example has worked at her job for 35 years now :O . We are in a time where the average american will change their career 5-6 times before they retire. A college degree is required for most any postion now. Although it has benifited me greatly, I will admit it is not for everyone.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Needing a degree depends on what field you go into. You have to look at it in the long run. While you are in school, you could be out in your field getting experience and making money instead of spending it. In the beginning experience means more than a degree in most fields. I was a machinist making very good money ($23.50/hr), but I never went to school for that (I started at mechanical engineer, then went to business management). I just excelled in my field and learned things quickly.

If you are looking to go up the corporate ladder, the best way would be to start a job right away after high school at an entry level job and start going to school part time. You are not going to get very high up in a company without experience and an education. Do you think someone would get promoted with a degree and 6 years of experience or a person with a degree and 2 years of experience? It does end up costing a little more that way though because you won't get as much financial aid.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Jet, it depends. If you went to school right away, you would finish sooner. That would give you an extra 2 years to get on your feet with only college experience. If you wanted to be a manager, you could spend a year managing at McDonalds and then have some managerial experience when looking for a higher up job.

An entery level job as an intern is not much for experience. The advantage to taking an entery level job is that you can get your foot in the door. Hope that they will have a position there for you when you are finished with school. Most entry level business jobs are secretaries or some other bitch position (hope I didn't offend any secretaries).

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Alot of CEO's started in bitch positions.Its either years of hard work in college or years of hard work at the job, I believe either way you end up at the same point.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

I believe you can make it both ways. There are a lot of things you learn going to college that you would not have learned in getting the job. There are also a lot of things you can learn on the job that you will never learn in school. On cars for example: everything is possible. You just have to have the time and the courage to attack problems and learn them on your own. I started from the ground up 4 years ago. My parents/friends had no interest in cars. I never thought I would get to the point of pulling 5 heads, 4 motors, and 1 tranny in one year.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Just to prove that your education leads to money thing is mostly bs, I was making somewhere north of 40K(at the age of 20) with no education other than a high school diploma. And it wasn't a labor based job either, I managed a retail department. And I wasn't the only one in that field making that much. Now yes, I wish it had been a stable position, but that was all on me. And yes I am planning to go back to school for a degree, but will I make anymore money than where I was before? Probably not. I could try and go up the ladder where I am now and make the same again, but I think it is time to move on.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

One other thing, where you get a degree from really doesn't mean shit. Most companies look at it where a degree is a degree. My Ex was convinced that she would get a better job because she went to a private college costing $18k/yr. She ended up making $12.50/hr answering calls in a customer service department. In a large company like Wells Fargo, they usually have a cap on how high you could move up w/o a degree. She could have spend her 2 years working at the entry level while going to school, then move up one level (the top w/o a degree) and be there for the 6 years you needed to to move up to the next level and gotten her degree. She would have had 4 more years of experience at the same point in her life.

Like I said though, it depends on the job, but this applies to most. A mechanical engineer? Get a job as a machinist then go to school. The experience you gain from being a machinist is invaluable. It works like that in most jobs, but not all.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

This day and age school is not a for sure thing anymore. I remember back when I moved down the the cities like six years ago, if you have and IS degree for example you could get a job for 50k right out of college very easily. But times have changed, now when you get out of college with an IS degree you will most likely end up doing data entry in a company and just waiting for your spot to jump in. The reason being is that there are people with five to ten years of experience going for the entry level jobs. Its a lot tougher on the college graduates than it has been in the past.

However I also believe it goes both ways. I would never knock anyone for going to school. But I think picking what you go to school for has a lot to do with how quickly you can begin using your education when you graduate.

Going to college is never going to hurt you in the long run, but I wouldn't go to college betting that you are going to get a super job right when you graduate. The economy is not gettting any better as we speak so jobs are going to be harder and harder to come by.

In my case I was lucky enough to get a job while I was going to college up in Duluth that I liked and that payed me good. School wasn't leading me in the right direction I thought at the time so I quit after a year. Was it a good decision I don't know? Was it a bad one? I don't know that either. But I can say that I am doing better than all of my friends that have four year degrees and have graduated college. So I think I made the right choice in my case. But who knows. Maybe if I would have stayed in college I would be making twice what I make now. I guess I will never know.

CRAIG

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

A degree is a good way to get in the door. But you need to be able to back it up. IF you can get in the door with a company that you can move up in biased on work performance and you can perform accordingly, then you don't need one. The company I am at now, you can get in the door without a degree, but more experience than what you gain working there is required to move up. That's just one example though.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Some jobs require a degree at a better college. I know for a fact that the Best Buy Management/Corperate center will only hire people out of good business colleges such as Carlon. She told me a couple of other "big" name companies but best buy was the only one that stuck. The information was given to me by a counselor at school.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

I do believe that going to college can be a costly/poor decisoin for some people. If they go to college and pass by a good business venture, it can cost them a career. Everyone knows someone who goes to college for no reason. Their parents wanted them to, they did not know what they were going for, etc. Their time and money could have gone towards making money. So I beieve a college education can hurt some people in the long run.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

It all depends on who you are. Personally I would rather not get way in debt by going to college 4 or 5 years to get a 4 year degree. Get out of college, can't find a decent job and you are still deeply in debt. There are many ways of making money that most people do not think about.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Suceeding in life is hugely dependant on motivation. Basically anyone who is strongly motivated will do well. They may fail a few times, but it will eventually pay off though. Most people don't want to put forth the effort, myself included. I put forth more effort than average, but still try to maintain a good life. Hell, if you are really motivated you can make 6 figures selling Amway!

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Yea motivation to always acheive a greater height is going to help out alot. I would say experience/knowledge is more important than a college degree. Having both is just that much better.

If you graduate with a degree, know the basics about the field you majored in, but have no experience doing anything then how are you going to make it in a high end job? Having a good resume and knowledge to convince your employer that you can exceed the job classifications is what gets you up the ladder.

My older brother has a 2 year drafting degree from a tech college. He worked for a couple smaller companies for a while, slowly moved up in computer work in the 90s. He taught himself all aspects of computer networking and administration and with a little time and alot of experience he is working for a investment banking company as head of Network Administration overseeing 4 locations (LA, NY, MN, UK). Makes a good living ;)

I plan on going the same route, but only with an additional BS in MIS. Although he is much more motivated so I dont think I would like the job he has right now. To me having less money and a greater non-work life is more pleasurable to me. Working around the clock everyday and weekends doesn't sound like my kinda job.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

I completely agree that personal goals, and motivation to achieve them plays a big part. Someone like that will go further than the "business major" that gets drunk every night, chases tail and some how manages to coast through.

I've bounced around bewtween schools and majors and have graduated w/a diploma and two certifications but I also have a lot more experience than other people. For my field its not how much schooling you have, schools not even neccesary, its your skills, who you know, dedication and motivation.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

So far I have read of people above that have done well without a degree, that shows you have brains, period. I chose to go to school because of my career. I love it and always loved it, but I didn't know shit about it. Did I need to get a degree, of course because it is a requirement, Did I find it necessary, yes. I went to a technical school and applied myself. I was motivated to go to school and finished it. yay.. If you have the brains to make money without a degree, you are smart and don't even bother going to school unless you know you need it. Does todays society require a degree? I would have to say yes, but that society doesn't really know why it is needed.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

I have a 2 year AS degree in drafting and design. After my 1st semester in school, I started working part time as a drafter. I believe that going to school, and working in the same field is the best way to go. They complement each other so well. You can apply the experience on the job to your school work, and vice versa. I also believe that motivation is a big part of it too.

I believe in going to school, and getting an education, because that's what I know, that's my experience. I wont say that you absolutely need to go to school to get a good job, but I truley believe that I would be flipping burgers had I not gone to school. I had trouble in High School, I had a low GPA, and over all was just kind of a bum. Just by chance I got a call from the tech school that I eventually went to, asking if I would like to take a tour. I decided what the hell, might as well check it out. Well long story short, I went there, and it somehow turned me around. I graduated with a 3.98 gpa, honors, and I had my foot in the door as an intern. The whole experience of going there, made me realize that I am worth something, and I can contribute to society. For me it was that turn around that gave me motivation. Without that I would probably still be living at home, flipping burgers.

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Personally, I say a degree is necessary in some situations and not needed in others. It all comes down to the individual. Personally, I could've done very well in college and gotten my degree... in whatever that would've been, but I realized, it's not what I want. That peice of paper is not worth my going to a building to educate myself in things I am not interested in. I guess I'm the opposite of Rockford/Mark. In high school, I did very well. I graduated with a 4.33 GPA and was in the top 10 out of my class (for the first three years til I lost motivation and graduated #13- I went from #3 to #7, to #10, to #13). In college, I had a rough start as I went to UMD which wasn't really where I wanted to go. It was a last minute decision being I had some benefits of going up there. After changing majors 3 times, I realized, there's nothing that'd make me happy or make this whole "schooling" worth it. In my case, there's not really a degree that'd satisfy myself therefore, it's not necessary because the way I see it, why bother if you're not going to be happy with what you do? Do what you want while you can or you'll regret it later on in life. If there's a degree you want to persue, go for it, if not, go with what you know best and stick with it. Just my .02

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

I've always debated this with my college-educated buddies. Most of them confuse intelligence with knowledge, but the two are not directly correlated. Yes, intelligence makes getting knowledge easier, but my experience has been that you don't have to be smart at all to finish college, just good at applying yourself over a 4-5 year period. What I've seen overall is a person who is driven will make WAY more money that someone that just gets a degree to get a good job. And hard work goes along way in the corporate world as well. This obviously applies to general application jobs, not specific training jobs like an attorney, doctor or upper level engineer.

Taking a cross-section of my friends who are all about 35 years old, I have three friends making over $250K/yr, all have four year degrees, and nothing more but incredible knowledge of investing and an entrepeneurial spirit. I have a few friends with four year degrees making less than $40K/yr. I also have 3-4 friends making very good incomes without a degree, but not as good as the top three. And my wife manages $12 million in annual business in her stores and manages 80+ people, no degree whatsoever.

I don't have a degree either, but I'm in the car biz, so I don't make shit. :D Although my business has doubled each year over the last two years and is already tracking to repeat that again this year. And then there's my other two businesses. ;)

Re: Is a degree necessary? Debate on that here.
 

Well if the feild requires a degree well you should have one.
All the teaching in the world wont do jack if you dont start with a natural talent.

Anyone ever seen Eric do wire? No high school degree and he has Mensa Capabilities.
Watching Mike in general doing the things he does that few could have taught him and he has picked up on his own trial and error. Like Mikes computer hacking skillz and his nunchuck skillz. But god knows the man cant play poker.

Finding a natural talent and running with it is key, if you need help on perfecting what you want to do go to school.