What would you do?
 

Here is the deal. I sold my laser on saterday. I had it posted in the for sale section with absolutely every thing I know wrong with the car. I sold it that way so I would have no guilt in selling the car. I was actually disapointed I was getting rid of it because it was a cheap perfect winter car. My mom pushed me to get rid of it as I had 5 cars. I get a call tonight and it sounds like he seised the engine up??? I swear I never had to add one ounce of oil to it as it did not loose any after all the work I put in the car. Here is what he Pmed me about:

this is 4thgenlude AKA charlie, under a new Screen name
Today i was going to drop off the title to my prelude, and as i was going out there, all of a sudden i couldnt shift into 1st gear or 2nd gear at all, so i make it too the highway and shift to 4th and then 5th with out a problem, and all of a sudden the engine dies, instantly, it just cut out, all the electrical stuff worked fine. then i pull over to the side of the road and try to cranck it up but nothing happens, so i pop the hood and notice that theres oil in the front spilled all over the place, but i couldnt find where it was coming from.
Do you know what this is about?
I have put 71.7 miles on this car since i bought it from you yesterday and now its not running,
and now i dont have a car to get to school or work, what can we do here?

What would you do? I have not looked at the car and have no idea how it happened. I do not have doctors clearance yet to even work on cars yet. I go to school full time (19 credits) and work full time. I have no time or money to fix it and I need the money. Please give your opinion.

Re: What would you do?
 

Man, that is a tough call. It's completely up to you, when you sell a used vehicle it's sold as is, with no warranty expressed or implied. You are under no legal obligation to do anything, now ethically.... that's your call.

Re: What would you do?
 

I even kept perfect records for the car. Here is a list I have of shit in fixed/replaced in the car. I had a spreadsheet going on my laptop.

11-4-04 118891 Wayzata Mitsubishi Timing belt $60.78
Timing belt adjuster $69.96
Timing Idler pulley $22.58
Timing Idler pulley $28.14
Balance shaft belt $23.22
Balance shaft tensioner $23.38
EGR gasket $1.96
Injector o-rings (4@ $2.18) $8.72
Injector insulators (4@ 1.26) $5.04
Thermostat housing gasket $2.16
Intake manifold gasket $7.78

11-4-04 118891 Already had Head gasket free

11-6-04 118891 Already had Cylinder head with good valves free

11-10-04 118891 Used of internet Two month old battery $40.00

11-10-04 118891 Napa oil filter and oil (Oil Change) $12.22

11-12-05 118891 Conaco Coolant $8.51

11-15-04 118891 Used off internet ECU $75.00

11-20-04 119120 salvage yard alternator $50.00

12-5-04 119240 Bumper-to-Bumper tranny fluid (tranny flush) $5.53

12-08-04 119259 Internet 2.5" Turbo-back exhaust $275.00
Internet TurboXS boost controller $60.00
Internet Intake pipe $45.00

12-8-04 119259 Checker K&N air filter $45.79

Re: What would you do?
 

You sold it "As Is" correct??
You listed every problem you knew of, right??

Not much you can do, guy just ran into some bad luck. If the motor was broken and ready to seize when you sold it, it probably wouldnt make it 70 miles without something minor going wrong before it completely shit the bed.

Re: What would you do?
 

My ad is in the for sale section. I was as honest as I could have been. I feel so fucking guilty though.

Re: What would you do?
 

I hear ya man.... I know how you feel. Maybe you can just help him diagnosis/fix the problem. That should help him out, and makes you feel like you did what you could too.

Re: What would you do?
 

This is the risk you take buying a car with known issues. Selling it used and as is means that once that title is signed over it's done with and you don't have the responsibility anymore.

I can imagine you feel guilty about it and what you do as far as helping him with it if you do any of it is your call. And between you and the new owner. I'd keep as much of it off the site as possible as sometimes others opinions can stir the pot more.

Sure he only put 71 miles on it, but those are 71 miles you have no clue on how it was driven or cared for. For all we know he dumped sand in the engine after he drove it away. Yeah, sure probably didn't happen but at that point it's not your car anymore.

Re: What would you do?
 

IMHO opinion, something went on from the time that car left your driveway. I've spent the last seven months working in a Technical Support group and have heard more sob stories about our products failing or not working properly when damn near 100% of the time, it was the customer's own error. I am not saying that something could have been wrong before the car left your driveway John, but the odds are strongly in your favor that something happened post-sale.

Re: What would you do?
 

I would figure out what happened first, or what went wrong. It seems to me right now from the facts that I would trust John more than the guy that bought it just because I know John and I do not think he would not tell someone about something major like that.

If i had just bought that car and was in that guys position right after I drove it home I would be doing a major check over (leaks, compression, making sure nothing is wrong off site, checking fluid levels etc.) I would not be beating on it right away or taking it on road trips here and there. BUT thats just me... or is it common sense when you just buy a car for 1800 bucks?

Oil doesnt magically disappear. It either burned all up, or a fitting must have came loose, maybe oil cooler connections got loose somehow, I dont know.

All I have to say is that its out of Johns hands as the deal is done.

Re: What would you do?
 

It doesn't matter what happened. An "as is" sale is just that. Sign the title and drive off and the car is yours. All 4 tires could have came loose and fallen off and it's not John's fault unless it can be proven a direct action to scam the buyer. Chances of that happening with our loveable cars is not good. My advice is for the new guy to spend some cash on a honda.

Re: What would you do?
 

I had about the same thing happen to me a couple years ago. I bought a Talon that had a "rebuilt motor" in it. About 2 hours later the number one ring went. There was nothing I could do about it. I just had to deal with it.

Re: What would you do?
 

I'm sure he was beatin the living crap out of the car every chance he got. I would still help him out though. Or atleast do guide him in the right direction.

Re: What would you do?
 

It's not your fault and you shouldn't worry about it because, you told him "EVERYTHING" that was wrong and you kept records of all the services you performed. Don't let him guilt you into anything... I got f-ed the day I bought my car... I got it running paid for it and a block later it died... I had to towe it home from the middle of minneapolis. I tried to call the guy back once it died, and he never answered his phone. It was litteraly 5 minutes later that it died. I stuck with it though and found out it was a popped alternator fuse. That was my luck though so I feel for this guy because I know how it feels. Thats just the way it goes when you buy a used car. The only way to get a back up with a used car is A: have an agreement with the seller, or B: Buy it from a dealership. I'm going to stop rambling though.....

Kevin

Re: What would you do?
 

71 miles? 1 Day?

I can ruin a car in at LEAST half that time...

Not your problem... Don't let some jackass try to con you out of your money.

If he was pissed, and it was an honest mistake, don't you think you'd at least get a call, or a visit?

What would YOU do had this happened to you? I would be PISSED...

Call their bluff...

Re: What would you do?
 

Its sucks for the guy who bought it, but thats the chance you take when you buy a ~13 year old vehicle.If you stated everything you knew about it, you're not responsible and I wouldn't feel guilty about it at all.

Re: What would you do?
 

This is a tough call, I'd want to inspect the car and try and figure out what caused the failure. If I concluded it was not his fault I'd probably offer to return half the money or help fix the problem. Honestly, these days you can get a running 4G63 for under $500, maybe offer to buy that for him and let him cover the installation/labor. This almost exact situation happened to me a few years ago, bought a car and 68 miles later the timing belt slipped and destroyed the valves. I purchased it from a well respected woman and she refused to help me. Not only did I loose every ounce of respect for this women, but I also caused to woman a great deal of embarassment, humiliation, and lets just say her career record isn't quite as spotless anymore. I don't like it when people fuck me so I got even with this woman and caused her a whole lot more damage than the purchase price of the car...don't let this happen to you. Offer to help the kid out unless its totally obvious he beat the piss out of it.

At the same time, the prick inside me wants to just say "fuck 'em." This is a very tough call to make and you're really going to have to go off what you feel inside. Not a bad idea to consult with your mother and see what her take on the situation is, like it or not, parents are very wise a lot of the time and really are crucial when tough situations like this arrise.

Re: What would you do?
 

I don't wanna sound like a dick, but I'd prolly just tell him sorry and you told him all the problems you knew about. If you read his other thread, it sounds like the oil feed line popped off. Who woulda known. He said it died, then he restarted it and drove it some more. Maybe he shoulda payed a lil more attention to that oil pressure gauge before he drove it more after it died once. It's shitty luck, but it happens. He'll just have to deal with it. The first car I bought, got it for a grand. 89 Sable. After like 2 months, the thing didn't hardly want to turn left. Then it blew a headgasket. So I sold it to some mexicans for like 200 bux. I blew a headgasket in my GST in Utah, like 300 miles from Yuma. So I had no choice really except to pay a local mechanic to fix it. Cost me 700 bux, but what can you do, it happens. On the drive home about 3 hours away from the shop, my oil filter came loose, causing my timing belt to slip and busted 5 valves an hour away from Yuma. Shitty luck. But I just dealt with it. I dunno, I feel bad for him, but shit happens. He'll have to deal with it just like I did, and like I'm sure others on here have before too.

Re: What would you do?
 

Werd

You shouldn't just give him the big "fuck you" he's only in high school(i think) so chances are that he was probably beating on it. But some guidance in this matter would really help him out. I mean don't get under the car and fix it or anything like that. Just maybe help him figure out what is wrong with it so he can go from there.

I really don't think the kid is going to try to sue you are anything like that. he probably just wants some help to figure out what is wrong with it so he has some transportation.

Re: What would you do?
 

Guys, there is no need for name calling, he is a member on this site too.

John, it's up to you to help him or not. When buying a used car, if something goes wrong, it's kind of tough luck. A dealer wouldn't do anything to help, so why would an individual?

Re: What would you do?
 

Actually a dealership would help out not only to save face and avoid a lawsuit, but becuase they are forced to. I believe the law is 30 days on a used vehicle.

Re: What would you do?
 

Nope. Not on an "as is" sale. They are only liable for those used cars where they may offer some sort of 30 warrenty or something.

Re: What would you do?
 

If I remember correctly, back when I was researching this type of thing, dealerships are obligated to provide some sort of help within the first 30 days. It is very possible there was a dollar-value cutoff for this. Maybe Steve will know more. There are a lot of consumer protection laws out there that most people don't know about (and that sellers/retailers won't tell you about).

Re: What would you do?
 

I don't know if there is a dollar cut off, but I know there is one for the age and/or mileage of the car. I bought my truck from a dealership. It's a '99 which had 107k miles at the time, and there was no standard warranty because of the mileage.

Re: What would you do?
 

I'd be interested to know what you found Chris, because less than 30 days after buying my GSX from Brookdale Mitsu the check engine light came on and they wouldn't do squat to help.

Anytime you buy a used car "as is", there is no warranty.

Re: What would you do?
 

I could very well be wrong. Too bad we don't have a lawyer on the board :)

Re: What would you do?
 

What I find strange is how the car dicided to piss all the oil on the ground and the tranny was acting up. As any responsible seller, I checked the oil before putting it for sale. I even retourqed the head studs. I was suprised in how the car was not low on oil. The only problem I could have forseen with the car is the owner not tunrning on the fan and overheating it. Nothing like what happened. How would the tranny act up? If the engine lost all oil and seised up, how would that affect the tranny?

As far as workin on cars, I hate it. I cannot even do it yet either (doctors orders). I considered parting my 92 when the block went as I did not want to put any time in the car. I have the engine out of my car and will not even have time to touch it until the spring when school is out. As far as diagnosing, I am pretty sure it is seised up. I have not seen the car but if it spilled out all oil and will not crank, that is my guess. Maybe excessive boosting on the car (has boost leak at the IC) caused the turbo to fry and dump the oil??? I have no idea how anything would affect the tranny though. I did my mom a favor in selling the car. I actually wanted to keep it as it ran perfect. Not like I didn't take care of the car at all.

I feel guilty as I have had bad experiences:
-Bought integra for $5000 timing belt and tranny went in the same month. Local dealer, I was screwed.
-92 talon $3900 clutch went at the end of the week. Owner of my works ex-wife was the seller. I paid the $1100 to get it fixed three months later when I had the money.

Re: What would you do?
 

I am pretty sure that legally he is under no obligation to help. That does not however mean that he can't be taken to small claims court where verbal comments could be taken into consideration as far as what John told him when he sold it etc. So it is possible that some civil action could be a problem but most people will not go through the hassle etc of filing a claim and the time frame involved.

Besides all the legal issue of liability and otherwise, if the car was truely sold without the thought of screwing the buyer, I do think it would at least be fair to help him troubleshoot the problem. Who did the work on the car? The timing belt, head gasket etc?

Re: What would you do?
 

I would just touch base with him on the subject. Since we are all members on here. I don't think it is your fault at all though. You did disclose everthing you knew about the car. He did look at the car and test drove the car before he took ownership of it.

Re: What would you do?
 

I did all the work myself minus Ryan coming over and throwing the timing belt on and tightening it. It was my 5th and final head swap of year 2004. Not like I am a newbie to it all anymore.

Re: What would you do?
 

The question of newbie or not is pretty much a point of perspective I wasn't after. What I am getting at is if one of the things you did as "the mechanic" failed on it prematurely, that should make you more likely to help him and it is possible that it makes you more liable in a civil case as the car was sold with those points mentioned as recent service to promote the sale. I could be wrong on the last part, just a thought to give you as much info as possible to figure out what to do. This is a sad situation for all involved. Even if nothing happens as far as the legal or moral side of things go, it should be one of those lessons everyone learns from as far as clearly defining "as is" and knowing the laws before selling or buying. If anyone finds the true details on what the law states as far as used as is vehicles etc, seller responsibility etc, they should post it up so we can all know for sure.

Re: What would you do?
 

I have found that DSMs are the most owner Pissy cars ive ever found. what i mean by this is that whether it be someone driving your car, or you recently sold/bought your car something bad happens. My car loves to blow tires when someone else is driving her. its really freakin stupid. The last 4 tires that have blown have done so with someone else driving my car. and when i first bought my car after driving about 200 miles, i blew a tire going 90 mph, i thought it was cool because the car handled so well after it blew, then 2 days after i got the tire replaced i was on my way to work and another tire blew. then me and my car had a talk and sorted out our differences and she decided she wouldnt blow tires with me driving again. hasnt done it since, but i forgot to tell her to not blow tires when someone else was driving. fucking bitch of a car.

Re: What would you do?
 

What does that have to do with the topic of the thread?

Re: What would you do?
 

I don't know what the laws are in MN, but in Louisiana there is something called an "Implied Warranty" that all car dealers are bound to. 30 days. They will tell you there is no warranty, but there is.

If you really want to know, contact a lawyer or the Better Business Bureau in your area

Individual's (one person to another) sales are not bound by anything unless you lie at the time of sale, get caught and dragged into court over it.

Bottom line, you don't have to do anything. If you want to help as a "goodwill" gesture on your part then feel free to do so. But I wouldn't do or say anything until somebody knows what truely happened to the car.

Re: What would you do?
 

I bought my 91 GSX a few years ago. Not 2 days later I threw a rod. I wasn't mad at the previous owner because it's not like he set it up to do that.

From dealers there is an implied warranty.
If it is a private party there is none unless stated in writing.

Re: What would you do?
 

This is Charlie, the guy that bought the laser, im not really mad at John and I dont think he set this up.
The reason I started it back up when it stalled was because, it stalled when I test drove it and one other time, due to the idle surge, so I thought it was the idle surge again.
I dont think I was beating the living hell out of the car, but I did accelerate up threw 1st and 2nd gear 2-3 times to see what the car could do, however other then that I was driving regularly. I never forgot to turn the fan on. I know that legally John does not have to do anything at all, but Id say that morally he should do something, both as the guy selling it and as the mechanic that worked on it. All I need is a running car to get me to school and work.

Edited. You cannot sell the car on here yet. You do not have enough posts. Read the rules in the classified sections and that will let you know what you have to do if you wish to post your car for sale.

CRAIG

Re: What would you do?
 

Yea for general transportation you should have kept your honda. Dont count on a dsm for alot of reliablity ;)

Re: What would you do?
 

That's all it might have taken. Seriously with one WOT trip you can toss a rod right through the oil pan or something. If that drive would have been with JOhn before the sale on the test dirve then it would be all on him. It's just happened to you as the owner and not him.


That's not up to you though. Honestly I can't really say I would do anything either. John has to do what he thinks is right in his mind and about the only thing he can seek from us is opinions. I am surprise he even did that on a public site like this. That shows something about him, cause normally stuff like this would be removed by the admins and asked that the 2 of you settle it off the site. I am glad both of you are being good about all this on a public board. You don't see that often. Thanks!

Re: What would you do?
 

He thinks he should do something but not buy the car back or anything. He transfered his ties to the car the night he sold it to you. He registered the sale online with his card off the title. Physically he cannot work now. He is only able to lift 5lbs according to his doctor. He has to schedule his next appointment to get his slip updated. Is there anyone in the minneapolis area who can go diagnos the car? John has school and works straight through the week.

Re: What would you do?
 

BTW, what do you think he should do. THis is his brother, James.

Re: What would you do?
 

I did do 1 or 2 WOT runs when i test drove the car, and nothing happened,
and I realize that its all on him what happens next but, IMO he should do something, (but of course Im going to say something like that). I dont know what to do, I cant fix this car because I do not have the time to do so, and If I pay a shop to fix a car, its not going to be this laser. It'll be my Conquest.