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92 Laser AWD Motor Problems
Well i just picked up a 92 laser AWD yesterday, and after 71.7 miles it no longer runs
needless to say im extremely pissed, well heres what happened: Earlier today, i oversteered and dented up the car a bit, and then I was on the way back from dropping off the title of my prelude, and all of a sudden it started getting harder to shift in or out of 1st and 2nd gears, and then i couldnt shift into them at all, luckily i was by the highway home, but then the car stalled on me, I strat her with out a problem and get on the highway, the i shift through 4th gear and 5th gear with out a problem, and now im going down 35W-N and the engine shuts down with a small "thump" sound, but this time it wont start back up,I pull over to the side of the road, then I pop the hood and notice that there is no oil in it, and theres oil in front of the turbo, but not on it, then i call AAA, 5 hours later im home, Cliffs notes: -I bought the 92 AWD laser yesterday for $1800 -I dented up the rear fender, (damn snow) -It wouldnt shift to 1st or 2nd gear 50 miles after buying the car -Stalled, but started back up -"thump" sound, and engine cut out and wont start up -i pull over to the side of the road -theres no oil in the car, and oil in front of the turbo but not on it, and theres a line that goes to the head that is not plugged in, i cant tell what its for -i call AAA, and get home 5 hours later What can I do?? this was the car. http://www.dsmstyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6140 thanks alot -Charlie |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
My eclipse dumped all it's oil out one day when the oil filter came loose. When I tried to restarted it, it made a nice Thump sound too. What happened was the oil sprayed all over the timing belt, causing the belt to slip and get frayed. And I'm guessing the thump was 5 valves that I later found busted off inside the cylinder after i removed the head! Maybe the same thing happened to you, but hopefully not.
--OK and now I just realised you said there's a line that goes to the head that isn't plugged in. So sounds like your oil feedline wasn't connected, and all your oil sprayed out. That's shitty luck man, but I guess maybe you shoulda checked under the hood before you restarted it, or maybe payed a little more attention to the gauges because i bet the oil pressure gauge was down there at the LOW mark. |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
the oil pressure guage was right in the middle, and so was the temp guage, im going to check it out more closely tonight, and see what else i can find, thanks for the help
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
So when the car died (possibly siezed engine) because it had no oil, you're saying the oil gauge was right in the middle where it's supposed to be? You sure? Cuz, call me crazy, but if you have no oil then that thing should be sittin over on the LOW end of the gauge.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
If I were to just guess I am sure you blew a oil line for the turbo or something. Thats why the oil pressure was ok up until it seized. I wouldn't rule the oil filter housing either. Something went wrong somewhere and caused all the oil to drain out and then motor probably seized. It doesn't take long for a motor, especially a boosted motor to seize up without any oil.
Find out where the oil came from and then it will be easier to diagnose your problem/s. CRAIG |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Does the engine rotate? Are the timing marks still lined up? Which exact line isn't connected at the head? Where there any noises or indication before it thumped and died? Give as much info as possible so this is easier to troubleshoot
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Were you boosting hard? The only thing I can think of is the car being boosted pretty good, the turbo going (as the car had a boost leak at the ic), and it shitting the oil out. Can you take a pic of the mysterious line? Is it is a metal line that goes to the turbo to the head? I am sure I know where it will/was supposed to go if you can post a pic. I do not see how it would have anything to do with the tranny acting up though. The car ran perfect minus the problems I said in my for sale thread.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/P1010083.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/P1010086.jpg sorry for the extremely large images but I thought that the more detail the better |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Unfortunately those pics don't really seem to show where the problem is, only shows a general area. Can you specificly point or give reference to exactly where the problem is.
Have you put oil back in? Does the engine spin over? |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/P1010081.jpg
heres the line that isnt connected, and i havent had a chance to pick up some oil for it yet, |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
That looks like the vent breather to intake pipe hose. If that came off the intake pipe you should have a large leak between the mas air meter and the turbo. This would make it hard to start and run poorly once started. Look for a large hose fitting on the intake pipe between the mas and the turbo. Put it back into place. Now find out where that oil went.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
That is just a breather line. Stock it just routes back into the intake pipe, but it looks like there is some ghetto intake on there now. A little bit of oil will come out of there mixed in with air. A breather filter or catch can would be a better way to do that line, but it shouldn't have caused the motor to fail.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Do you see any large splashes of oil anywhere under the car? There is nothing in the pics as fasr as oil, loose lines etc.
We either need some pics of the oil cooler assembly or just the bottom pan and all. Did the car leave a puddle of oil when it was towed? Any evidence at all? |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
There is a metal intake pipe on there and the line is dumped to the ground. That line means nothing. The intake pipe doen't have a spot for it.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Car is a 92 so no oil cooler.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
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and where i pulled over there was a few drops of very dark oil, not very many though tomorrow i will jack the car up and take pics of the oil filter and get some pics of the underside of the car thanks for all the replies |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
BTW, I remember the turbo having caked on dirt when John got the car. ICEMAN scraped off the front side of it to look cleaner.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Why are you missing the FPR solenoid,EGR solenoid,and Purge control solenoid in the first PIC, and the fuse box? looking at the PIC it would be the upper right side. The hose in PIC two is the vent hose, for the camcover and should have a filter, it was pluged in to the stock air intake hose.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
It likely has the EGR and purge can removed. The FPR is probably direct to a manifold port. Nothing that would have anything to do with the problem. Unless I missed it, the question about it turning over hasn't been answered yet. That is the first step to knowing how big an issue you are looking at.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
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When I pulled over on the highway I tried to start it back up but nothing happened, I could hear the starter motor trying, but the car would not turn over. I then popped the hood and noticed that there wasnt any oil in it and decided that it would not be a good idea to try to start it up again. |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
O.K. so it will not turn over, and there is no oil on the dip stick, right? sounds like you have a junk Engine. Pull out and replace.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Could be locked against a bent valve as well. It would still be worth checking into a little further. Take a 1/2 drive breaker bar and see if the engine will rotate backwards, just a little. That will tell you if it is just hitting a bent valve or not. If it doesn't, the above advice is accurate, swap or rebuild time.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
What the old dude (vicious) mentioned in the other thread is also a concern, even if it is a valve hitting that is keeping it from rotating, without oil, a spun bearing is also a good possiblity.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
The things out aren't needed and are taken out. The solenoids aren't needed because the emissions are taken out and the fuse boxyou are talking about is the ac fuse box which isn't needed either since the ac is removed. BTW, the filter for the hose only causes resistence for the spilling on the ground anyways. There is no spot for it in the intake and all it does when it is connected is coat the ic and piping with oil making them less efficient. The hose is not needed to be put back in. None of our dsm's or our friends dsms have them connected. We all spit it onto the ground.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Well I went and looked at the car. Im not going to list my opinions on the car here... but they would affect my decision on whose fault it is...
Basically I tried turning the crankshaft pulley with a 1/2" drive and the pulley rotated a 1/4 turn guess what didnt turn with it though... The camshafts and the timing belt on it. So my guess is the t belt slipped, chewed up the bottom of the belt and now when you turn the key, the starter just spins, thus not starting. I tried turning the engine back the other way until it stopped and the pulley nut loosened, which is Not good, and I was barely putting any pressure on it. So from those things I conclude the engine is probably toast, but I do not know becuase maybe the head survived, and maybe the pistons survived also. He said that it just quit after a clunk, so that doesnt sound good but we wont find out till someone tears it apart. Oh and he cant really shift into first or second gear because the shift linkages that bolt to the transmission were not even tight, and there was too much play in the cables to push the gear lever forward enough. Im not blaming anyone at this moment, I dont know how it was put together or how he drove it so Ill just leave it at that :) |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
The starter is not driven off any belt. For the starter to not engage, the starter gear would have to strip or the flywheel gear would have to strip off. Neither are very likely. If the crank can turn a bit, maybe the block isn't toast. It only moving a minimal about could be due to some bent valves. If that is the case, it would lead me back to the "no oil." The block could have siezed up, the timing belt still had a rotating mass on it, and it could have stripped some teeth off the belt. That would be my guess. Sounds like the block didn't move at all though. It should move in atleast one direction if it is only bent vavles. If it was only bent valves, the starter would still turn the block smashing the valves even more (I have got 2 cars with bad valves and gotten them running). Sounds to me that the block is seised up (no oil), thus the starter cannot turn the siesed engine. If the engine seised while the car was moving, there is pretty much no hope. The weight and momentum of the car is much stronger than the starter. I am guessing the timing belt ripped teeth off the belt as the belt is moving fast and it stopped all of a sudden. Little rubber groves stand no chance. What does everyone else think? That is my diagnosis. Any idea where the oil leaked from? Ryan installed the belt perfectly for me. That is one thing I do not trust myself doing. Him and John L. have done it numerous times for me.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Yea Im puzzled about the loss of oil. Didnt get under the car to check for that as it was in the street. I just dont know about that.
The starter can still spin the engine, I couldnt turn it past a certain point because I didnt have much leverage. BUT the main thing is that the cams didnt rotate, which means the timing belt did slip and now only the crank spins. I dont think the engine is seized, it turned a litle bit for me, and that is probably becuase it stopped on the valves that are to far down. You are positive you checked the oil right before he drove it away from the sale? Hey and why did you give me a bad reputation? Someone did between a couple hours ago and now. ;) |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
If the crank spins, the block is not shot since it would be seized up. Did the motor turn a 1/4 of a turn with the wrench? Does the starter spin the block?
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Yea its a smart idea to keep spinning the starter... We dont know if anything is salvagable, so if we know the t belt is junk now, then why not just take it all apart and then see the damage, versus trying to start it and ruining more shit.
About the block, if the pistons are destroyed then the block is ok... The pistons might be dead if they are hitting the valves. If the starte spins the bottom end then that leads me to assume having no oil was not the problem, becuase why would the t belt slip then? It doesnt really matter now, I dont think he will fix that car, I advised him to get rid of it becuase it will just be a money pit down the road, and he would rather fix his conquest. Those impulse buys really get you in the end ;) |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
The motor could have temporarily seized causing the t belt to over run the pully thus rip the teeth off the belt. Try pouring oil in the car and see if the block turns with the starter and that will tell you if the block is seized up. If the t belt is the only problem, bent valves aren't a huge issue. John has repaired 2 cars with less than 200 in parts including paying ryan or john to put the belt on. The car was assembled fine. A person with timing belt experience put the belt on and set the tension and everything. He has done it a few times for us.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Yea thats great but it doesnt help this guy any... How is he supposed to do all that. I wouldnt waste oil or time turning the engine over. He said that the started will sit there and spin, which to me means either the start broke and is just spinning (not likely) or the whole bottom end spins freely and already destroyed the valves therefore if you keep spinning your only hashing up the cylinders and ruing more stuff.
It obviosuly needs to be taken apart so why inflict more damage? I dont get it... |
Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
I am not getting in the middle of this, you guys can throw ideas back and forth all day long as to what is wrong and what it will take to fix. I will say this, troubleshooting the problem is easily done by a decent mechanic. Fixing it depends on what all is found. A block that turns over isn't always good. Spun bearings keep oil from reaching inteded areas etc. If you assume the bottom end is good without checking for proper oil flow, spend the money to fix the head and timing belts etc, you are throwing good money after bad. Do not fix anything until you know the extent of the damage and speculating does no one any good. Bad advice is expensive and poor testing procedures can cause additional damage as Peter mentioned. Get a decent mechanic to look at it if you decide you need it fixed, otherwise the car will never end up reliable.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Yes I agree. That is why I say it needs to be totally overhauled or atleast find out where to oil went first.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
Has anyone checked for shaftplay in the turbo? When my turbo went out it drained all the oil and spit it out the exhaust, granted there was a huge black cloud behind my car, after i had the turbo replaced the block went, from the brief moment of having little or no oil. Thankfully i had a warrenty to pay for it. But i agree with peter, first find where the oil went, then get a decent mechanic to look at it with a boaroscope etc... see what your in for before you just trash the car.
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Re: Car broke down, after owning it for 1 day
It's very simple.
GET UNDER THE CAR AND FIND OUT WHERE THE OIL WENT. PULL THE HEAD. PULL THE OIL PAN. Stop talking and do something. This isn't that hard to figure out people. |
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