Dead 1g
 

Hello everyone.

I have a 1992 mitsubishi eclispe gsx 5spd. Im a delivery boy w/ this car and just yesterday I was delivering pizza for about 2 hours. On one run I put it in neutral and the car just died. Things that I thought was weird was that the car blew white smoke prior to my car dying but not that much. I thought the white smoke was just water vaper due to the cold. Another thing was when i decelerate in gear either the transfercase or something below my car was making a noise. The noise sounded weird, like something vibrating below my car. Back to my story, i tried jumping the car, thinking it was something electrical, but i have a new battery and the jump didnt seem to work. A buddy said that the head gasket was blown and i have no compression in the pistons. Is this true? Im not sure whats wrong so if anyone has had this problem or has any clue's that'll be helpful.

Thanks
Jackson

Re: Dead 1g
 

Do a compression test if you think the head gasket is blown. Maybe check the timing belt to make sure it didn't snap.

Re: Dead 1g
 

First off, let us know how many miles are on it and what relevant mods are done to the car if any. Has the motor been rebuilt? Has the timing belt been changed latlely. Was the car pushing coolant prior to this happening?

If it just died when idleing it could be a number of things. The more infomation you give the easier it will be for your problem to be solved.

CRAIG

Re: Dead 1g
 

What happens when you turn the key? Does it try starting? Dead silence? Details man!

Re: Dead 1g
 

Well today I looked at the timing belt and thank god it is still in tack. When i crank it, turning the key, the cams dont move at all. I opened the valve cover to see if any rockers or lifters are still in tack and they are. This head is pretty new about 20k miles on it from a previous owner. Block is at 140,000+. Question, why doesnt my cams move when i try turning on the car? The timing belt didnt snap, and my rockers are still in tack. Any advice?? Is my engine gone?? Did my balance shaft belt snap or something?

I'll try putting the car in gear and pushing it to see if the cams move. will let you guys know soon if it does move while doing that.

ADDED-

Checked coolant, its still near full.
Checked oil, the oil is low but still has minimum.

I was using thicker oil, should have changed it but im not sure this would be the reason.

Mods-
Rewired fuel pump.
Manual Boost controller.
K&N Filter.
Free mods.

Re: Dead 1g
 

The belt is skipping over the cam gears?

Re: Dead 1g
 

Is your starter even engaging? Its weird your cam gears aren't moving since you say that the timing belt is ok.

CRAIG

Re: Dead 1g
 

Yes thats very weird. Hrm ill check the starter, but im pretty sure its working properly. And no the belt isnt skipping over the cam gears, they are all still intact w/ the teeths. Alright i just put the car in first and rocked it back and forth. The cams moved a few teeths then stopped completely. The lifters and rockers were the same. Any suggestions?

Re: Dead 1g
 

When you turn the key does the car actually sound like its turning over normally?

CRAIG

Re: Dead 1g
 

Yes, it does. All the belts but the timing belt move, the car just doesnt turn on.

Re: Dead 1g
 

Line up your timing marks and see if it jump some teeth on you. This would cause the car to turn over and not start. This would also mean that your head has some bent valves in it most likely.

CRAIG

Re: Dead 1g
 

If that were the case, what would i need to do to fix it? Easy fix? or Complicated?

Re: Dead 1g
 

Pretty complicated, and you would need a new head or have the one thats on there rebuilt. Then you would need to redo the timing belt and the water pump if its been awhile since its been done.

If you had a shop doing I would say they would charge somewhere around 2 grand to have all of it done, maybe less, maybe more. If you know your way around these cars you could get a used head and switch them yourself. Then you have to worry about the timing belt. Which isn't too hard to do, but requires some practice and paying close attention to detail.


CRAIG

Re: Dead 1g
 

Ok while looking at the engine while someone is trying to start it.

-The car cranks but doesn't sound healthy (leads me to think starter is working)
-The timing belt is connected and is on tight just like any dsm I've seen (look below for 2nd comment)
-When the cranking the car, the cam gears and t-belt don't spin but the accessory belts do spin.
-The engine doesn't rock back and forth during cranking which leads me to think the pistons aren't moving up and down.


That's what I can visually see happen while someone is trying to start it.

Re: Dead 1g
 

We tried rocking the car back and forth with the car in gear. The mother was hard as hell to rock and didn't seem like the cam gears wanted to move. It seemed like the engine was locked onto something. In neutral it was fine.

Re: Dead 1g
 

This would be your timing belt.

Re: Dead 1g
 

What does that mean to the car? What are the fixes?

Re: Dead 1g
 

I already told you the fix for it in my above post.

1) New/Used/ head, or have yours rebuilt
2) New timing belt
3) Timing belt tensioner
4) Pulleys if they are bad, have to inspect them
5) New water pump

Thats the big things I can think of now. There may be more depending on what else is worn out when you tear it apart. Its one of the worst things that can happen to a DSM asside from the motor blowing up.

CRAIG

Re: Dead 1g
 

By repeating the process of trying to start your car multiple times, even though it wouldnt start ever, you mpst likely ruined your head and all your valves are probably destroyed. I wouldnt be suprised if you cracked a piston or two if you tryed rocking the car back and forth.

Wow have fun with that. By having just the main crank spin that means your pistons are moving but your valvetrain is not...

Re: Dead 1g
 

As was said before, it sounds like you are missing many teeth on the timing belt. The teeth that are missing are down by the crank. That's why it turns but not the belt. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE ANYMORE!!!!! If you have not hit any valves yet, you will if you continue to do this.

As Craig mentioned, you should pull the head to make sure everything is ok. These are interference engines, meaning if a valve remains open and the piston comes up the piston will hit and bend the valve. I have had two timing belts go (one before I bought the car and one because of the place that replaced the first timing belt) and both times the head was bad.

The first one got rebuilt. It was about $800 for all the machine work and new valves (and guides I believe). The second one wiped out all the intake valves. I found a good one on a car in a junkyard. I pulled all the valves out and cleaned everything up. I had the valve guides knurled, valve seats and valves reground and the head planed. It cost me $300 at Napa in Burnsville and they did an awesome job.

If you do the work yourself you can keep the costs minimal. If you have a repair shop do it, you will be looking at a lot of money (anywhere from $1000 on up depending upon what needs to be replaced).

I'm sure you could find a good head for sale here and find someone that can help you do the work. But you will need at least all the parts the Craig listed plus a new head gasket set.

Re: Dead 1g
 

This same thing happened to me on my old engine. A piston came up and bent some valves. It didnt know what it was because it would still sound like it was trying to start but it wouldnt. It sucked, thats about all I have to say.

Re: Dead 1g
 

Yeah I say you have major timing belt issues.It does not take much to warp or bend a valve.Trust me thats why my car is down right now.

Re: Dead 1g
 

ahh.. i guess its time for a rebuild :(.

Re: Dead 1g
 

I had the same thing happen when I had a balance shaft sieze. Shaft and timing gears didn't move but the rest still turned with the starter. There was no teeth around the crank. What teeth should have been there where taking the place of the balance shaft belt that was elsewhere in the timing belt cover. I just got a whole new motor.

Re: Dead 1g
 

The other possibility is the crank key that keeps the timing gear in proper index sheared or came out. I have seen that happen as well and it will cause exactly what you are experiencing. Likely as mentioned, you have a whole heard of bent valves, you can pull the cams quick and see if they all return to closed position to check quick, but it doesn't sound good.