What to go with over 600hp?
 

I'm planning on going big this year ?(summer 05) when I get back from school. I'm thinking about going with the eagle rods and wisco piston's? but I was wondering if i should go better than that set up? I am also looking into going with the 2.4 de-stroked to the 2.14 and reving to about 10,000 rpm. I hear that qpr is currently building a motor for someone. I was planning on waiting to make my decision based on the out come of that motor. I will also be building this motor myself. I'm just wondering what people have run, and also what people's opinion's are on a built motor. I will also be running a built tranny of course and also a twin disk clutch of some sore along with slicks a cage and possibly a wheelie bar... well have to see.

Kevin

You can't make 600hp on a 4 cylinder, are you crazy?

Honest opinion: Save your money. 600 whp dsms are overrated money pits unless you are going to have alot of funding from an alternate source such as drugs or whoring yourself. ;)

do it kev, i have yet to see a single running 2.17L yet. i'd be they make more power than the 2.0s and 2.4s with a proper setup

Sorry if I'm sounding like a jackass but I'm just looking for internal opinion's... I will be doing it becasue I love to drag my car... go big or go home man. Thanks Gixxer for the prop's now whats all of your opinion's on internals?? and what motor to go with?

I think Marco might be running a 2.14l. Eagles will hold 600whp. Will they hold 600whp at 10,000rpms? I don't know. You might want a dogbox tranny, if you plan on being able to shift at 10,000RPMs. You might want to use some Crower or Pauter rods. The cost of engine internals are going to be a small drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the parts need to get a DSM to make power at 10,000RPMS. DSMs are not VTEC Honda's, they don't keep making more and more power as you rev high and higher, they usually flatline not long at spooling up and eventually start falling. With the commonly used parts most 2.0ls start dropping power a little after 8000RPMs. With the 2.4ls it's more like 7000-7500. You should be able to make 600whp with even a 2.0l with a 75lb/min turbo and 35psi.

I think what Kevin is thinking is that with the 2.14 he is going to be able to stay in gears longer which will be more benificial with FWD. But Shanes right in the fact that you are going to spend a fortune getting the car to actually utilize its high reving capabilities. And the shifting is going to be a big issue unless you have an auto. If you are planning on driving it on the street your not going to want to spend the money for a dogbox either just to kill it in a year driving around town.

CRAIG

I would go with Crower rods. I am not positive if Crower makes the longer rods that you need though (156mm). I know there are at least 2 companies that make the long rods though. Pauters are awesome, but they are wider than Crowers so you run into more clearance issues with them.

One nice thing about the Eagles, they are the lightest rods I have seen. Less weight is a good thing, especially when spinning that high.

Thanks for the information. If theres more to add that would be awsome. I do know that reving higher doesnt mean im going to make more power like honda's, Craig did make the valid piont that I do want to rev that high because of FWD, and the traction issues. But like I said I want to see one in action and well see what I decide I may just got with the 2.0 for all I know or possibly the 2.3 stroker. Basically my decision rests on some good hard research. Thanks a lot!!

Kevin

I'm sure there's a few running around out there somewhere besides Marco. They look good on paper, more displacement and a rod ratio an Indy car would love. Build it up.

I mentioned building one up to Brent since he's actually got a tranny that could handle the rpms. He didn't seem interested in changing from the 2.0.

why is that? is the vtec lobe have some GIGANTIC life/duration or what??

Brent actually hasn't really done any research on the newer configurations. He is having good luck with the 2.0 and wants to stick with it. I told him about the 2.14 and 2.4 stuff last year, but he wasn't too interested. He said he talked to Marco some and Marco sent him a few parts, but he didn't like them too much.

Please do this in a AWD... Mostly worthless in a FWD. Just buy Shane's car for 25g so he can get a 1/4 of his $ out:)

2.14 is a great design, rod clearance should be less of an issue since the crank used is shorter throw than the one the block is designed for. So Pauters should be no trouble to run. Also, Crower has no issue with selling longer rods and I personally would go that route. As far as Pistons, I am to the point where Wiseco has me a bit pissed off so I have been scouting other sources and have some pretty cool info that I will post after I can prove it. The current 2.14 that we are building is using a knife edged crank, a scraper, windage tray and the pistons that we have been looking at. Looks like a promising setup when done. The tranny and other parts are being built to handle it as well. The head is getting a lot of port work and larger valves, cams matched to the expected powerband and an upgraded ignition and intake as well as exhaust and the perfect turbo. Cam and valve spring selection is a pretty big deal with the RPM range intended. And since you asked about dry sump before, this would be the right app for it. Kevin, if you want more info on the pistons we are looking into, PM me or shoot a call and I will fill you in.

Sound like somebody else is building a powerhouse FWD eh Kevin?

We'll have to get together and brainstorm as your shooting for around the same power level as I am. Maybe we can get a multiple purchase discount on some FWD go-fast parts (twin-plate clutch, wheelie bars, etc.)

We're deffinatly gonna run 'em when they're done ;)

I won't say who it's for but that monster Mike is talking about building is also a FWD deal. ;)

Curtis?

I will wave to all you FWD guys as I pass you in my low reving 2.4l street tired AWD in the next lane. :)

I know of a FEW fwd that are going to be putting down some crazy power next year.

So they're going to put down over 750+ whp becuase 6-700 whp is everyone and their mom these days. :)

Yep. The lift and duration on a stock GSR cam make an HKS 272 seem tiny. The stock Integra Type-R cams make Crower "Race Only" cams for DSMs look wimpy. They also have great cylinder heads with small hi velocity ports.

Just do a stock motor with an auto tranny in a light colt or mirage and run 9s. Weight is more important than making power.

I know of someone that is going to be making ~425 whp in a car lighter than a colt. Yes, it is 4g63 powered!

NO I will be putting this into my laser... since I already have the car.... I want to be a name in the business as in running some impressive e.t's. I love draggin my car. I will do it all my life if possible... The other reason why I'm going with my FWD.... There really aren't many FWD cars running fast e.t's, granet yes there are a few like 10 or so.... I want to be original... instead of sticking this motor I'm going to be building into a AWD car like "everyone and there mom" No offense AWD cars do rock but, it would be more impressive to me to have a car that runs fast times and can back it up street or strip. Its going to be impressive non-the less. And Brian well run them for sure!! A little friendly comp. never hurt anyone!! Its going to be a blast!

Kevin

I'll give ya a pm or something soon Mike.


This is kevin btw under My buddies s/n

If your plans consist of going to the track and running sub-par ET's but high traps then FWD is not a big deal. The only way you are going to get decent ET's out a of FWD is to drop a lot of weight. If you do not plan on gutting the shit out of your car Kevin you will alway be disappointed at the track.

On the street however, a 600whp FWD would be insane if it wasn't too heavy and had good tires. And especially if you do a 2.14 it would be even more lethal considering you could stay in gears almost as long as a crotch-rocket.

Either way to each their own. I love my FWD Laser. But when your are at a stoplight next to something that you know can hook up. You are just like "fuck" what am I going to do now. There is nothing like ripping some Shitstang out of the hole in a AWD on the street when they are on street tires. Granted at the track on slicks them RWD cars can pull some sick sixty foots though too.

CRAIG

There have already been a few FWD DSMs and CSMs in the 9s. If you want to make a name for yourself build the car to Turbo 4 class specs and try to take on some of the light Hondas, most of the cars in that class run mid 9s to high 10s. God knows they try to make the rules so that AWDs can't be that competative in it. The Hotrod/Quick 16 class is a bit out of the range of normal people with mid 8 second Hondas running alcohol and crazy trannies.

http://www.fastestfwdstreetcars.com/...ion%20page.htm

Like I said. Keyword is LIGHT. A gutted FWD Laser would be a heavy ass sled to most of them Honda guys. Thats why you have to make a few hundred more HP. :cool:

CRAIG

I plan on gutting the car it's going to be basically a full race car pretty much. nothing in it really but a cage and a seat... and on the occasion two seats. Its not going to be easy I know this but I'am going to be shooting for somewhere around 10's or possibly lower depending on the set up and if it will allow it... well just have to wait and see. I'm not jokeing about this eather its lagit. I will most likely have an AWD dialy car.. but the laser will never really have any dormit day's.

Kevin

When you are ready to lighten it up, give me a call as well, I have a few "tricks" to help with that as well ;)

There are ways to make a front drive hook better also, you will see a few of those mods this spring on Curtis's car as well.

It better not be as legit as your spelling. ;)

Good, a bunch of FWD's this year. By the time you guys figure out how to get it to hook, I'll be at the shack picking up my slip. :-)

You mean at the dress store picking up your slip ;)

I doubt that I'll be running by the end of this year. Besides, what do you have??

want torque?

not me, i want the 2.14. it would be really fun and it's still rare, apparently. i bet no one has done it in a 'quest.

i'm sure a RWD tranny exists that can shift very high and still be street driven. or at least modified to do so. T56 maybe?

But why would you ever want to get rid of that awesome Starquest motor? Just drop a TH400 into it.

yes, a tranny designed for an engine with a 6000 rpm redline would be a fantastic choice for a motor that revs to 10

Steve has run an 11. I agree with Craig, if you really want a good number out of a FWD, go with an auto. A stick is more fun to drive, but an auto is going to hook a lot better.

Prime example is that white Laser that was at the shootout two years ago. I can't remeber the guys name, but I think JET talked to him. He was running consistant low 10s with a FWD Laser auto. It looked super boggy out of the hole and then it just took off like a bat out of hell.

CRAIG

He had a stick in it this year and ran 9s.

pwnd!! it was Kiggly right?

Yeah, it does. The "pro-shifted" Liberty T56 shifts that high without problem.