Evo 16G vs. V-Trim TO4B
 

I've been doing some planning on what my end goals are going to be with my car ('92 Laser AWD Stock). I want to have the powertrain and drivetrain work complete by roughly late next fall. In the end I'm not looking for mega power, simply not of interest to me. The 350-400 whp is definitely where I'm looking to be comfortably sitting in end. I'm looking at either a 1G/2G combo or a 1G/Wiseco combo with the necessary supporting mods. Plans were leaning towards a Evo 16G until I came across this: http://www.bullseye-power.com/produc...products_id=38

I've been very impressed by the customer service reviews of Bullseye along with the fact that AGP uses their turbine housings. Anyone care to share their $0.02 about the TO4B?

I should also mention that I'm looking to run it externally gated.

Back in the day, alot of Starquest guys were going with the V1V2 comp wheel and a t04b or t04e housing. They seem to like. I've heard good things about it's spool up and streetable power. I think it would be good choice. I'm not saying it's perfect, just saying i think it'll be a good street turbo. And looking at the price it's looking better:)

I should also mention that I have no intentions of pursuing any sort of engine management further than an AFC-II for quite sometime as I am 100% new to the whole 'tuning' process since I just got my Laser a few months back.

One thing for your rod/piston choice take some more info into that choice. A 1G rod & 2G piston option has been done and works well for what you want to do as well as a 1G rods and the wiseco piston setup. The bad thing is that both setups will require seperate machining for the rods to work with the pistons. If you get a good enough deal on the rods and pistons and you only end up paying about $100 - $150 more for a set of eagle and wiseco compared to the other options after machining. So it that case you really get what you pay for.

Bulllseye is alwasy comming out with some new options for housings and Mike and Josh can talk more about their products since we at one time had a few in house at QPR and decided againts carrying the line at that time.

With a built motor and what your looking for I would probably go with an EVO III 16G or just step up to a PTE 50 trim.

In the end I would like to have a powertrain and drivetrain similar to that of 98tsiAWD's on Tuners: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/member.php?u=1186

Im not going to search for the facts but back when I was looking around efficiency wasnt the greatest on those turbos. Id say the Evo 16g isnt going to make you 400hp, unless your spraying. Id say 50trim is a best bet for the range your looking for, and those are all over now as everyone has one. So just get a used one from someone on here ;)

Those wheels are crap. That is some 1940s technology there. Perfect for a Starquest. :)

The stock motor will hold 400whp all day long, and I think a 50trim would get you there faster and possably on pump gas.

~John

It was swanny that said they have a nice chart:) Some 1940's tech is right for starquests, like N2O.

PS: fidy trims is +igh+ yo!

50 trim/to4b/7cm

You would go 7cm? ain't that alittle small?

Yeah, do the PTE 50 trim with a T04E cover. I loved mine for a street turbo. Full boost at 3600 and it ran 12.0 @ 119 at 19 psi. It is definately my choice for a street turbo on a 2.0.

Please refresh my memory cause I'm way too tired to look, will the ^^^^ bolt on to my 2G manny?

Yes, any of the PTE turbos that say SCM will mount to a DSM Manifold.

http://store.yahoo.com/cheapturbo/garrettgt2871r.html

Less "lag" (lower boost threshold) than a 50 trim and supports 400hp. And it's NEW technology! This is the big brother of the Disco Potato.

That combination would be a great street turbo that would make the power Jakey is wanting on a 2.0L.

350-400whp on pump gas or race gas? You should be able to hit that range on race gas with an EVO 16G, if the rest of your setup is good.

A 50-trim/7-cm/t04b is very close to an FP Green. Swap the t04b comp housing for a 20G comp housing and you pretty much have a Green.

You have a link for that turbo Mike?

That's a very common combination for a turbo. Everybody has that turbor for sale; Elite, VPE, PTE, FP, TurboTrix, etc, etc, etc. You should be able to get a good price on a new one.

Look here ----> http://www.dsmstyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5602

You could go with the TO4E cover, but you will have to clearence the coolant pipe or run a spacer. That was why I suggested the TO4B cover so you would have a clean bolt on turbo will no problems. I agree with ecoli that you could also go with the Mitsu cover, but I like the Garrett stuff better.

I may have a bolt-on VPE GT3056 BB turbo for sale soon too, but it will be more a little more money. ;)

There aren't many turbos that really use the 7cm Mitsu exhaust housing anymore though. The Franks, Mutts and Green did, once PTE and others started making their own bolt-on Mitsu casting they switched to them since they are much much cheaper than trying to find 7cm exhaust housings to use. Some of the places were eventually forced to buy new 16Gs just you get the 7cm exhaust housings off of them for use on hybrid turbos. That is why you used to see so many brand new 16Gs for sale without the exhaust housing for sale for cheap from places like FP. Turbos like the Green and XCs(ETE/Mutts) are still expensive compared to what is out there nowdays with custom cast Mitsu housings.

Yeah, that's what I meant, Mitsu style housings, my bad. :D

Just get 1ViciousGSX to sell you his turbo for cheap. It would be like having a dual ball bearing 50-trim.

hmm.. temptation

Cheap!?!?!?!?! What's that? :p

With the motor I am building I should be able to be just shy if not right at 400 with race gas on my EVO3. But I am building it for 400 on pump gas(hence the reason I will be spraying). It is entirely possible to get 400 on race as I was at 320 with a very weak motor and about 24 psi. If you want to be for sure I would recommend either an FP green which will do it all day long and give you great pump gas numbers.

I am kind of in the same boat as you are for final goal with our setups. I was looking at this one, http://www.agpturbo.com/customer/pro...&cat=72&page=1 but have since decided to keep my EVO3 until it dies, I may go with that one or the slightly bigger 49 when I do need to upgrade.

Race gas. I simply do not have the interest in shooting for something higher right now as I want a good point to build off of since this car is my first DSM. I also have no interest in running anything but the 2G manifold I have sitting in my garage as it is in perfect condition so I want to get my use out of it. I'm going to have JET port the manifold for me and I want to research JetHot coating it also. I also have no interest in running nitrous. The Green is way out of my price range at $1299. I wouldn't have a problem running an externally gated turbo but I definitely need to read more about wastegates before I look at what I want to purchase.

Hey Jakey, have I got a deal for you!!!.

Since I decided I'm going to go full Garrett, I have a very nice bolt-on set-up for you that is ready to go.

VPE GT3056 BB (polished TO4E/.56 trim/GT30/PTE style Mitsu housing)
VPE 2.5 inch stainless O2 housing (external back to internal, set-up for Tial 40mm)
DN Performance tubular manifold
FIC 780 cc injectors

Let's talk. :D

16G's are fun but pretty soon after you run her you'll wish you had just went ahead and gone with the 50 trim.

Unless you'd cut me one hell of a deal: too big, would be nice, nope, maybe.

20+ psi by 3400 rpm, 25+ psi by 3400-3600 rpm on my 2g 2.0L. :D

I regret getting rid of my Big 16G, easy to tune and was a very fun street-car. Like I said, IM me for some cool vids.

Im pretty sure that if your car didnt break then you'd be plenty happy with the 20g you used to have? It would have happened sooner or later, prolly sooner.

Oh I know, the engine would have gone either way. I am just saying that the Big 16G was a lot easier to tune and made a pretty wicked street-car while remaining reliable (I drove the car for over 3 years, and besides for the very end the car was only down once and that was for a leaky waterpump). If I were to build a DSM again (which I'm not), I would probably toss an EVOIII 16G on it and just work on maxing that out with cams, MAFT, FMIC, etc.

Speaking of my 20G, have you installed it yet, Peter? If you have, what do you think?

Its on, just waiting for Mike to get healthy again, one pipe to finish. What 20g? shh its a secret! haha.

What about turbos using the 270 degree thrust bearing versus 360 race heavy duty thrust bearing? It seems that avoiding a 270 degree trust bearing would be a good decision?

End the end this is what I want my powertrain & drivetrain configuration to consist of:

-Turbo (not sure which is obviously the purpose of this thread)
-Late 1G head, Probably a EngineTecs Stage 1: http://www.engintecs.com/html/dsm_heads.html
-Stainless stock size valves, Probably the stock size version of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...938765455&rd=1
-Cams: FP 1's or FP 2's
-Retainers & Springs: Either Manley or Crower, TBD
-6 Bolt Block, May very well be stock if my valve seals prove to be the cause of my oil burning problems, If a rebuild is necessary it will be fully balanced and bored .20 over
-Engine internals: TBD if a rebuild is necessary
-ARP Head studs
-Walbro 255HP Fuel Pump
-FPR, Brand TBD
-S-AFCII
-Injectors: TBD, Probably 660's
-Head gasket: TBD
-Balancer Shafts, EGR, ABS, & Possibly AC: Removed
-Intake Manifold: Stock
-Throttle Body: Stock
-Intercooler: TBD
-Intercooler Piping: Stainless
-MAS: 2G
-Intake: FP cast aluminum 4" with 4">2.5" silicon reduction
-Stainless hardware where applicable
-Exhaust Manifold: Ported 2G w/EGT Tap, Potentially JetHot coated
-MBC: TBD, 25 different brands out there and I need to read more about the differences
-ECU: Depends if I can get ahold of an EPROM
-Exhaust: 3" stainless turbo-back
-Cam gears: TBD
-Clutch: Probably an ACT 2600 but there's so many options I want to explore everything
-Flywheel: Possibly a Fidanza, but same situation as the clutch, Need to research much more
-Tranny: TBD, Probably nothing drastically more than a stock rebuild

Again like I said in the beginning, I have no intentions of building a monster nor do I even want to. It is simply not an interest of mine. I want a good solid car that I take take to the dyno and comfortably put down 350-400 whp on race gas. Please feel free to post up any questions, suggestions, or concerns about the above. Most of you know around here know me well enough to realize that I'm here to learn and not act like I know everything about anything.

The springs, retainers and valves aren't going to do anything for you with the stock intake manifold. You might want to put money into an intake manifold before doing up the head, unless you do end up just running a 16G and shifting when it runs out of steam.

Yeah, there is basically no point in putting in stock sized SS valves with your setup. Save that money and put it into something else. And like Shane said, if you aren't going to spin it over 7800 rpm, there is no point in springs and retainers either.

The SS valves looked to be quite a bit lower cost than replacement stockers but I do need to look around more. As for the springs and retainers, from what I've read a number of people recommend it when running aftermarket cams, but that's why I'm asking all these questions, to hear from you folk who are actually experienced with it.