CNN just displayed numbers that 53% thought Kerry did a better job and bush only got 37%. They also said that Kerry did a much better job at getting his points across. Another poll said that (results after the debate):
Kerry Bush
favor more 46% 21%
favor less 13% 17%

What do you think? Bush did not seem very credible to me as he was having problems answering the questions.

Kerry is definitely a better public speaker, but that doesn't make him a better leader.

(I don't take sides on politics, and both of these candidates suck.)

I agree


Screw all the stupid bitching about it. LEts all drink and forget. :cheers:

Yea Kerry's only thing he has going for hi is he can speak alot better in public.

Other than that Go bush!

cheney won the VP debate.

I agree. I can not stand Kerry or Edwards but was expecting Edwards to walk all over Cheney which I feel did not happen.

i didn't get to watch but the end of the VP debvate, but what i got from cheney was : vote for us or die.

scare tactics.

You might be onto something ^^^. We all might die if Kerry is elected. Literally.

hehe, you just proved that republicans are only good at spinning!

Cheney owned, it was obvious! :whipped:

Sure.....

I think Cheney came off in this debate as a pissed-off old grouch. Cheney has an annoying monotone voice and a habit of looking down at the desk/podium when he's ticked. I think a lot of the debate analysis is bunk, but does staring at the desk when you're citing facts inspire a lot of trust? Cheney succeeded in not losing on the Halliburton issue or cussing on stage. I think it was a clear draw and I support Nader (which does mean I'm voting against the democrats).

Oh c'mon ya tool. Pick an issue, throw it out there, and explain why Kerry's position is better.

you want your job taken away from you and shipped over to another country?

Matt D for Prez! And I think Craig would make a good Vice Prez! Think of all the hos he'd employ!

Nope, but if it happened I wouldnt blame the president for not stopping it. It aint his problem, it's mine. If someone in another country could do as good a job as me for less pay, then I should be doing something else.

I have mixed feelings about this.Yeah it hurts the people who lost their jobs, but it doesn't hurt the economy as whole.Allowing businesses to get cheaper labor, ultimately boosts their profits, which every business should be allowed to do, even if it takes shipping jobs overseas.As always, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.Being against this almost seems a little selfish to me, why should should one persons(or business's) potential to make money be more important than another?

something key that cheney said durning the debate..:

"And Senator, frankly, you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished. You've missed 33 out of 36 meetings in the Judiciary Committee, almost 70 percent of the meetings of the Intelligence Committee.
You've missed a lot of key votes: on tax policy, on energy, on Medicare reform.
Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you "Senator Gone." You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate.
Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session.
The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight"

FYI, they meet on Meet the Press and shook hands a while ago.

I have mixed feelings about this.Yeah it hurts the people who lost their jobs, but it doesn't hurt the economy as whole.Allowing businesses to get cheaper labor, ultimately boosts their profits, which every business should be allowed to do, even if it takes shipping jobs overseas.As always, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.Being against this almost seems a little selfish to me, why should should one persons(or business's) potential to make money be more important than another? [/b][/quote]
Shipping jobs overseas will defenitly spread the difference of lower class and upper class even further. Over time, it might eliminate the middle class as a whole because the middle class jobs are the ones being shipped over seas. There will be few rich people and many poor people. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It will be even harder for the poor to get out of debt also as inflation makes things even more expensive. It will help the economy some because money is in circulation, but there will be a huge amount of unemployment and poverty over time. I would rather see the government helping companies that start up businesses here than letting them go elsewhere.

Bottomline, a company should have the right to do whatever they can to increase their profits.I don't buy that crap about spreading the gap between income classes.

Middle class willnever go away... atleast in our lifetime for sure.

The jobs being shipped over seas are mainly production jobs that just cost too much over here to keep people working on them. They are mainly lower to middle class jobs.

Shipping jobs overseas contributes to the global economy. Shipping our middle class jobs to other countries doesnt destroy the middle class. If anything it displaces it until the other countries' economies are built up to the point where it is no longer economical to ship the jobs there. When they start demanding higher wages and healthcare.

Make sense? No? Take econ or something.

Also, the shipping jobs overseas came from the democrats. Remember a little thing slick Willie put into effect called NAFTA? It really has hurt our economy. Our recession came from that.

The companies put out in their reports that they are going to make all this extra money from cheap labor, so the stocks go up. The thing they didn't plan on was that all these people that got laid off aren't going to be buying their products anymore because they don't have a job, so everything starts going downhill and we get the recession.

Luckily we do have programs out there that help train employees who lost their jobs to overseas workers. This costs us all tax money, but gets us more skilled labor. This has a 2 sided effect. It allows that person to make even more than they were before, but it creates more skilled workers, so the average wage goes down or does not increase as much as it should, decreasing the wages for the workers already in that field. So, there are good and bad parts to it, depending on which side of it you are on.

You are right, who cares if the middle class dissapears. We will all be dead by then. I know my kids or grand children aren't going to care if they are stuck in the lower class.

If you look at it that way, why did we attack Iraq? They were not doing any harm to us? Why not fuck the global economy and focus on ours?

How long do you think it would take for the whole entire world to be at the point where it wouldn't be more economical to send jobs out. Our standard of living is completely different than the standard of living for many other countries. Some places, people can live off of 3,000 a year. You cant live off that here.

There is always going to be someone willing ot do it cheaper. If you look at everything this way, you are totally going to destroy the middle class. It is not just going to set it aside. What about all the people in Africa who are dying because they have no food? They will give anything for a bit to eat. Why not send all of our jobs to them, pay them nothing besides giving them a bowl of ramen three times a day? Lets start slavery all over again...
It is going to take too long for the global ecomomy to catch up. What do you have to say about the people who have gotten layed off at their jobs after being there for 25 years? It is happening all over the place. My mom had to say goodbye to a co-worker that worked at RBC- Dain Raucher with her for 18 years. She was layed off a few months ago. When you, your dad, mom, or someone you care for gets layed off, try and tell me that you are fine with it. My dad has been out of work for a few (3.5) of years. It is very hard to find a decent job now. All of us have heard of all the kids coming out of college that cannot fined work. I work at Ace hardware and the owners daughter is back after 4 years of college as she cannot find a job. A girl who quit from my work in july has still not found a job. She has been looking hard for one since she left, I have even been helping her. Several generations, possibly even centuries will pass before the middle class will catch up globally. That is where our presidents should step in. Instead of not taxing companies who ship jobs away, we should tax them harder. We should also give companies who do not ship jobs away tax credits. It turn we can control our ecomomy. CVD, you know that the government is the largest influence on the economy. They should step up. The current president hasn't.
Why should we be responsible for for supporting the economy of the whole world by letting ours go to shit? Why are we always the ones to step up? Obviously nobody else cares, why should we?

The advice most of us have recieved is just no longer possible and instead of bitching about it, just man up. Go to college, get good grades, find a nice company, and devote yourself to them and they will give you a safe secure job. Thats a thing of the past, there is no such thing as a safe and secure job any longer. Its not a secret, so just deal. There is not going to be any social security for you, its not a secret, so deal...make you own. Why does everyone depend upon others to make their life work for them? Learn some financial intelligence, its not taught in school, if you need some books to borrow, let me know i can supply you with many. Don't depend upon the gov't to make your life simple and problem free or anyone for that matter. :goodluck:

You make some valid points about the time it would take for the global economy to catch up. But another issue is the fact that we have skilled labor here. There is very little skilled labor in sub Saharan Africa and I very seriously doubt we are losing any jobs to places like Nigeria or the Congo. BUT, the bottom line is that I'm sticking by my previous statement; Yeah, it would suck to lose your job, but it's not the end of the world and you cant blame the president, or even the government for everything.

I was in this situation last year. I had an excellent job that paid VERY highly for the type of work I was doing. It was in the mortgage industry and that industry started getting really slim towards the fall of '03. I got laid off because there was no longer work for me to do. The furthest thing from my mind was to blame the government for raising the interest rate (which was the ultimate cause of the decline of business). It took me 6 months to find a new job and this job aint as nice nor does it pay as much. I'll live, and I'll just have to work harder to achieve my goals.

As for the businesses that are looking for cheap labor, ultimately there is a net benefit for everyone involved. Jobs for the poor in other countries, and cheaper products here at home. It's too bad some people get the short end of the "benefit stick" but to say that it is wrong or that the president should fix it so that people dont lose their jobs is, in my opinion, selfish and short sighted.

They met on Feb. 1, 2001, when the vice president thanked Edwards by name at a Senate prayer breakfast and sat beside him during the event.


On April 8, 2001, Cheney and Edwards shook hands when they met off-camera during a taping of NBC's Meet the Press, moderator Tim Russert said Wednesday on Today.


On Jan. 8, 2003, the two met when the first-term North Carolina senator accompanied Elizabeth Dole to her swearing-in by Cheney as a North Carolina senator.

Again you lie. Stupid fucks.

We aren't relying on the gov't to make our lives simple, what we want from our gov't is some acountability and a belief that they will fight to protect our well being. THAT IS WHAT A GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSE TO DO.

This is fairly off-topic but I am stating it anyways: One thing I have been noticing lately are all the Kerry supporters holding signs, etc. on street corners. Never do they talk about what a great president Kerry will be, but always what an awful one Bush is/will be. I honestly think the best possible campain Bush could run would to be say, "I apologize for not being able to go on tour or attend press-meetings, but I am very busy running this country, especially with the current war going on overseas." I think that statement alone would be better than any number or ads or visits since it would actually show how dedicated he is to the job and is in it for more than just popularity.

There were lies and misinformation on both sides of the table that night, I dont know how you can call one a stupid fuck without the other being just as guilty of the same accusation.

There were lies and misinformation on both sides of the table that night, I dont know how you can call one a stupid fuck without the other being just as guilty of the same accusation. [/b][/quote]
exactly

sorry should have been a little more specific. :stick:

That may have been true in the past but things are changing. High paying IT jobs that people went to college to get are now being outsourced to India to people who sometimes have even more college education. A fraction of what we make puts them into the upper class of their society. Americans can not compete on price now, nor are they always the more skilled worker. I'm still pretty conflicted over the whole thing. There are still some major problems with outsourcing IT but it's defintely a big scary unknown and it would be nice to at least encourage keeping jobs hear as opposed to banning outsourcing completely. Want more info? Go here for stories and opinions:
http://slashdot.org/search.pl?tid=&query=o...rt=1&op=stories

My new motto for this election is the AVP tag line. "who ever wins, we loose".

I heard companies even pay the new employees to go through a program to make them sound more american and even give them american names for taking calls.

That does happen. I saw it on TV...I think it was True Life??? They teach people in india american accents, give them american names, and have them answer computer support for americans. I am just totally opposed to outsourcing.
I would rather have the bulk of american money tied up in the majority of citizens than in the hands of a few. That is what happens when comanies outsource. The employers make more money and americans are out of jobs. As a business owner, outsourcing is great but to us commoners, it sucks. Just so a few people can benifit, we all have to sacrifice.
Just like my Avatar.

the next presidential debate is going to be at my school, too bad Gamage auditorium can't hold 50k kids :( guess i'll have to go watch the televizzle in the stadium

RIOT RIOT!!! haha