Jet and I have been working on fixing my oil Leaks from my Oil Feed/Return line.

We got them all fixed finally yesterday. But when I went to start the car yesterday My oil Gauge had no oil pressure. My head had No oil in it. But the Oil dipstick reads Full, and the idot Light is on.


Things we did since last time it worked:

1)Drained all the oil

2) Theflon Taped my OIl feed line threads

3)RTV'd My Oil Return Line to Turbo

4)Welded the Oil Return Line to the Oil Pan so that I'd never have to deal with it leaking again.

5)MOST IMPORT IMO - We Swapped oil Pans, We installed the Oil pan from my 1995 GSX. This Motor is from my 1996 GS-T.

So jet and I are wondering is there a difference between the Oil Pans, or is there a difference between the Oil Pick ups?


Everything was working just fine when I pulled into his house, So I'm confused as to why all of a sudden this would happen.

Any ideas on what's going on?

AS PER MITSU CAPS, THE PANS AND PICKUPS ARE THE SAME?

are you sure that the picup might have gotten cought on the trap baffle in the pan? so it would be out of the oil ? just a thought? or did youu remove the pick up? maybe no gasket? forgot to tighten the bolts?

just my .02

I have no idea but it definetely wasn't the easiest thing to get back into place. I hope I didn't bend it out of place or something.


This was the 3rd time in 3 days I've taken the pan off and on. And every time it was the same difficulty getting it back into place.


Each time the pick up didn't look like anything happened to it? Screen was not bent in anyway, etc?

The oil pan is tightened into place I don't know what else it could be?

Check sensors on the oilfilter housing to make sure there pluged in, and you can not just bend the oil pick up by putting the pan on, unless you use a floor jack or somthing to push it up there. Other then that start the car and look thew the oil cap there should be oil on the cams then at least. Also is the pan dented?

~John

The pickup wasn't taken off, just the pans were swapped.

There were a TON of metal chunks (big chunks!) of metal in the pan that was on his car when he got to my house. It is also possible that the oil pump decided to disintegrate right before he got to my place. I think it is a problem with the pickup though.

Both sensors read no oil pressure (idiot light was on too) and there isn't ANY oil in the head. I already took off the oil cap. No dent in the pan either.

I was just pointing out the obvious. So it looks like the oil pump or another internal engine part has let go.

~John

The metal parts were copper, there also were "C" clips or something in the pan?


If it let go it let go while we were working on it. When I drive I'm always checking Coolant Temp (logs, and gauge) always checking Oil pressure (I've had my oil filter fall off in the past and blown an Oil filter cooler gasket)


And everything was working fine when I pulled into Jet's house. (I always check everything prior to shutting the car off as well)


Oil pressure was up when I pulled in - so it has to be something we did when we were working on the car?

Alright, Joe just brought up something. In the hurry to get yer ass home, did you leave the rag in the oil pan that you were cleaning it out with? Just a thought.

The metal chunks in there did look like turbo bearings or something.

Brian, how over filled is the oil for sure and how much did you put in.
joe

4 quarts - but typically speaking my car reads full after 3.5.

In this case it's about 1/2 quart to mcuh. I will mention this new pan isn't dented where as my last one was dented. So who knows?

Maybe that dent brought the oil up to the pick up or something? or bent the pick up as well?

And I didn't leave the rag in the pan. I'm positive on that one. The only thing I didn't do was clean it out after jet finished welding.

Oh and also I took the Valve cover off and Polished it? not that I think it has anything to do with it. But just wanted to cover all the bases.

The oil pickup is hard, you're going to have to do quite a bit to bend that thing. Is there a gasket that should be between the pickup and the pump? The dent in the oil pan might be pressing right up against the screen of the pickup and not allowing any oil to get in.

I'm confused. You said "everything was working just fine when I pulled into his house", but you said you found metal and c clips in the oil pan? Metal and c clips would indicate everything was not fine. :( I'd be more worried about what that was from.

As for no oil pressue; bad pump, huge oil leak, or there's something wrong with the pick up. Since it was working when you pulled in, leak, or problem with the pick up would be my guess.

If i have to come over on fix this tonight i'm going to be pis--- just kidding, but if you need help I'll be there.
joe

And although this would suck you might want to test the pump and/or pickup by taking off the timing belt and spinning the pump with a drill or air ratchet. Better then starting your motor with no oil pressure. Good luck!

Well the metal could be from anything. I've never personally taken the oil pan off before.

this block has seen a T-25 blow up, as well as might be something from my old HRCS20G?

I don't know but if it was turbo parts then that would explain why it knocked so much when we dyno'd. The only thing I don't get is there was no bent fins, it spun freely, etc.

I don't know? There is about 45,000 miles on the oil pump if I had to guess.

Anyrate. I can't do anything towards this car at least till friday cause i don't have any gas or money to get up there to work on it.

I'm kind of temped just to tow it home and just leave the damn thing. My only problem is I don't have another car to drive.


Go figure I start off trying to fix a Minor problem and end up causing a big one?

When I pulled the pan off the oil pick up had a screen on it and was not dented and looked to be in perfect condition.

The oil pan I installed has been sitting in my garage for 2years. I cleaned it out when I was up at Jets prior to welding.

But didn't have the time to reclean after welding.

The welding wouldn't have done anything to the inside of the oil pan, sans maybe burning a little paint off, but that wouldn't matter. We'll have to check it out more later on. It shouldn't be anything major.

I was just wondering if there might have been splatter or somethign that could have gotten sucked up into it or what not.

(but I didn't have oil pressure from the get go. so who knows)

I really hope it isn't anything major cause it'll be end of OCT before I'd be able to pay to get it fixed.

I really hope I get out of this loud exhaust ticket. I need the money.

Also Jet think next time I come up there we can finish welding the dump tube?

If I take off the waiste gate we should be able to do it with it on the car. Since I'm probably sporting the only Flex Sectioned Dump Tube in the State. :woowoo:

Yeah, we can definately do that. I don't think any splatter could have gotten up there. It has to have something to do with that oil pan or something.

Maybe a swap back to the original Oil Pan in needed?

I don't know what the hell it could be. But I don't have the money to to the Timing belt or get a new oil pump.

And unless you guys can figure it out, I'm probably done for the year.

So when you looked at the two oild pans were they similar or not at all? If you didnt look then I dunno but that shouldnt make any difference unless the pickup is blocked but I doubt that.

Unless you left that rag in the pan like JET mentioned which could block the pickup entirely :stick:

It doesnt make sense that it wont pump oil because it did when you drove it there and everything was fine. The welding on the pan might cause a blockup if the hole is plugged but oil would still get sucked up the pickup if it was blocked, which I doubt.

I dont know. The only way the oil pickup couldnt be getting oil is if the old 95 pan was shallower and you could put less oil in it. Maybe you need more oil in this new pan to fill it higher. You should also check to see if the dipstick from the car with the "new" pan came from is any different than your current dipstick from your old oil pan. If it is diff. then maybe you dont have enough oil in the car..... this is really not likely.

according to the parts guru the pans are the same. They also look the same side by side. There isn't any weld in the return tube either. It is definately weird. We'll have to try switching the pan back or something.

I'm using the Same oil Dipstick as before,

The only differnce is my last pan was dented and at 3.5 quarts it was right in the middle of the "Fill/Full" Line.

Now with a little over 4 quarts it is above the full line.

The only thing I can think of is the other pan was dented right under where the Pick up is? So maybe that bent the Oil Pick up, Up.

So now with the now deeper Oil pan it doesn't reach the oil? but to me the oil pick up looked totaly normal. When I took apart my GSX Motor to be parted out the Oil pick up didn't look any different then the one that's in my GS-T Motor (ie: the motor that's in my GSX Now)

The pickup goes right to the bottom of the pan, there is no reason the oil level should be below the pickup if the oil level is full.

The dam pick up is not bent, there is somthing else wrong. The pick up should have 4" of oil over it when the pan is full, which you said it was. You could put 1 quart in and the pick up would be under oil.

~John

Maybe you bumped the filter hard enough that the gasket cracked and there's no longer a seal. Kind of like a straw with a hole in it. It's a long shot, but damn, there just aren't that many things that could cause that.

I bet you guys will find what's wrong right away when you drop the pan again.

EXACTLY!............Open her up!

My 2G threw a balance shaft internally before. I had all sorts of metal smashed bearings and shaft parts. No oil pressure light though....oil pressure instrument read a little low so I checked my oil and saw shimmering oil on the end of the dipstick. I tore it apart and installed a b-shaft elim. kit.

To make a long story short.........Open it up. You might find that tool that fell under the valve cover, inner half of your oil pump, b-shaft, thrust bearing or space alians.

-Matt

OH NOEESS!!!11

Before I'd pull the pan, I'd take the timing belt off and spin the oil pump with a drill. Look under the oil cap for oil coming into the head. If it's not, there's a blockage between the oil pump and the head, especially in the oil filter housing. I don't think it has anything to do with the pan or pickup.

well Heres my two cents Did you do a balance shaft eliminator at all? and if you did did you use that stubby one or the QPR balance shaft elim?? cause the little stubby guys tend to chatter and baskically take out your oil pump and by my guess the brass you say thats you saw in the pan is chunks of your main oil pump gears...or.... grab a test light and go through your wireing and check the relays and all to the oil pressure guage and the oil pressure sending unit...the unit it self may be bad also....and according to my all data here at work your car should take roughly 4.5-5 qt's of oil.

I would also take off the tbelt and spin it up. If the oil pump went dry it can be hard to prime. I had the same issue two weekend ago with my new motor. No oil to the head and no pressure reading. Pulled the tbelt and it took almost 30 sec of spinning before the drill slowwed and showed signs of oil being in there.

Well, the brass pieces can't be parts of the oil pump gears since they are steel. The most curious thing was a fully intact wavy C clip that was in the oil pan. It had about a 3/4" diameter to it.

Wrist pin retainer? :lol:

I am pretty sure it is turbo bits. That is the only place I can think that they use brass in the oil path.

I know a guy on NABR found some unknown parts in his oil pan a while back and they were supposedly some T25 turbo bearings.

Well I never took off the oil filter though any of this so wouldn't there still be oil in that system?


it's definetely not electrical cause when you take the oil cap off and look inside the head when the cars running you can see there is no oil getting to the head.

I vote to try spinning the pump with a dril, if you don't see any oil getting to the head time to drop the pan.

:goodluck:

Jim

If it was mine and I had that much time and money into the car, the pan would be off and the front case, pump gears be apart so I could check everything. Having any metal in the pan can cause damage to so many things, it isn't worth it to just guess and fix one problem when there could be many. The steel gears in the pump ride in an aluminum housing, any particles that make their way past the pickup screen will chew up that housing. Bearings and journals get destroyed by small particles as well. I would do everything I could to make sure that the bottom end is as clean and within spec as possible.

I won't speculate as to how this happened. You will most likely find out if you get it all ripped apart.

good luck either way... all it needs is time by the sounds of it!

-E

Time and Money.

If I knew how to do a Timing Belt I'd tear the whole thing apart. But I don't so I'm at least looking at $400 or what ever the going rate is for a Timing Belt Job, Which I don't have at this time.

I will and plan to at least drop the Oil pan just because it's Free and Easy enough to do.

Like I said if we can't figure it out, etc when we drop the oil pan. I'll just have the car towed back to the house and it'll sit there till I get money to tear the motor apart. Earliest would be October.

I have my a $220 ticket to pay for. as Well as my $450 Plane ticket to South Carolina for my September trip with Jenny.

I just don't know what else I'll have to drive. Jenny's tranny is getting to the point where it doesn't grind or anything, But it just won't go in gear. Which is why I stopped driving that car.