Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Go!

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

A lot of people have no idea what that flag actually stands for. People see that flag and immediately go "THAT STANDS FOR SLAVERY!" or here in MN guys with big lifted trucks think it stands for being a redneck.

What people don't realize is that it really represents states' rights. Now, granted the major state right that they were fighting for was the right to own slaves... But at its core, its the same debate we have today. How much power should a centralized government have vs. individual states.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

^ obviously not enough people care for what it stands for at its core. The only thing attached to it is nothing but negative connotations so why have something like that, which clearly offends people not be removed. Do you want the Nazi flag hanging around everywhere if you were Jewish, or a Jehovah's witness, or polish what ever the case might be...because Hitlers idea of having a pure race that in his opinion is going to benefit everyone and should make for prosperous condition's, on top of that is a nations or segregated part of the country's right? I wouldnt think so. Having personal rights or state rights shouldn't be taken away, neither should others rights to feel happy or remain in a state of none agitation be jeopardized. Either find a different way that wont offend or forgo your own right in benefit of some one other then you, and they in theory should do the same. Its hard to please both sides but this one shouldn't even be an argument.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

We fly every other flag in the US, if people want to fly it, regardless of what they think it stands for, go ahead.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

It will be gone soon along with all the other things that people cry about these days. People's ignorance will win. Soon we will all be wearing helmets for our own "safety".

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

If you're illegal and want to wave the Mexican flag after graduation on the taxpayers dime...yeah, that's OK.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/06/19...aduation-stage

But flying a flag your ancestors fought and died for? OFFENSIVE.

There is a cemetery in my neighborhood where both Union and Confederate soldiers are buried; all these men, regardless of side, deserve respect. I'm just glad all of them are still honored in a ceremony held every Memorial Day at the site.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Ya this is a huge debate going on right now here as our gov. Wants to take it off the state house.

Personally I thought it was removed already a few years ago. But I guess not. Amd after the shooting in Charlestown, she wants to remove it.

But like posted above and also by my wife. The confederate flag wasnt about slavery.
People here always says its about the heritage here. Its still on license plates everywhere.

And there are slogans you see on cars constantly here that state.
"heritage not hate"
And I would also tend to think that alot of the people complaining also dont know what it stood for (like myself personally) I always assumed you see the confederate flag. I just associated it with people who probably were in the kkk or something. But was put in my place the first time this topic got brought up here at work.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

One of the biggest problems in this country right now: It's easier to get offended by something than it is to actually educate yourself on a topic at hand.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Dis homie! QFT.

Also, lets raise the tuition on students as well who want that education! :ring:

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Women who fart offend me. Please ban them, k thanks.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

The Confederate flag is a symbol. And regardless of what the original meaning of the Confederate flag is, you have to look at what that symbol means to people in today's world. All symbols change and evolve over time. You have to look at this symbol and decide what it means to society today.

Any educated person knows that its the battle flag for the Confederate army. But its pretty naive of any of us to only think of a symbol like this in its original meaning. This symbol has evolved over the last 150 years. For thousands of racists and bigots, this symbol has a hate filled meaning. And a lot of other people recognized this symbol for that meaning.

When I was in my high school typing class in 1987 and I used the shift key and the number 3 I got a pound sign. In today's world that "symbol" is called a hash tag. :)

later,
Curt

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

True, take the triple diamonds for example.

1990's:
http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/aijxdfhgn4vnro.jpg

Today:
http://www.dsmstyle.com/photopost/da...76181460_n.jpg

:lol:

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Ouch. That is harsh. I still look at DSMs the same way as I did in 1997. What bugs me about DSMs today is how these punk ass kids who think "DSM" means any Mitsubishi car that looks sporty. They have no concept of what a car platform is and how DSM is a "symbol" of a particular platform. :(

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Doesn't matter, that's how the symbol has changed. So we must all refer to you as a DSMer now because the times have changed. See you at the DSM meet next week :)

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Oh, the one at Culver's? ;)

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Yeah, the Upper Midwest DSM meet that Curt brings one of his DSM's from his DSM collection to.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

LOL. At least with the improper use of the term DSM, its still in the minority and usually people who stick around the car world long enough figure it out. And I'm going to do my part to make sure this term doesn't "evolve." :)

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

so damn true.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I re-worded Cur's post to reflect the reality of it.

It's the same for the Confederate flag,........ We keep letting minority opinions dictate our world. Education goes a long way, but these days that's part of the problem. To me the Confederate flag is about southern pride, nothing more. I don't have one, I don't want one, but I respect other peoples rights to fly one if they want to. The Confederate flag harms no one.

Prediction:

Won't be long before the American flag is deemed "racist", just wait. What then?

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

That's funny shit right there! :biggrin:

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

It already has been. Remember the school in CA?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/...on-campus.html

http://www.wnd.com/2014/05/americans...ving-u-s-flag/

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I remember, but it hasn't gotten traction like the Confederate flag has. At least not yet, but it's coming,....


I think we should ban the Democratic party, they have done more to incite racism and hold down the black community than any other group has.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I agree with Curt. The mass meaning of the confederate flag took a negative turn in the 1950s when the KKK adopted it along with other racist groups as a tribute to pro white and pro slavery.

You dont see anyone waiving the old 13 star colony flag in tribute to fallen soldiers... There are only a couple reasons people still fly the confederate flag.

The main historical reason pertained to the Southern states of the confederacy, the losing party of the civil war and anti big govt values. Then theres the other side which has to do with racism. When groups of pro white people adopted the confederate flag, that changed things.

If that wouldnt have happened, there would be no issue with the flag IMO. Once that type of thing happens, it takes on a different connotation over time. Especially with new generations who dont know the entire history on the subject, only what they might see on TV, or movies that probably have to do with racism.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

So,....... What about freedom of speech?

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

You sure do on the east coast! It's fairly common actually, I saw multiple last time I was out there.
Ignorance and/or lack of education is not a good excuse.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

This doesnt have to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with states proudly displaying something that has a negative impact at this time in history.

If people still want to fly their confederate flag, go ahead. But the majority of people who view the flag based on race relations will not want State or Govt entities to promote it.

The nazi flag originally had a positive meaning of german power, not so much after what ended up happening.

Take a look at the swastika, dont think anyones still waiving that around positively after WW2.

Swastika-

It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.[3]

It has been used as a decorative element in various cultures since at least the Neolithic, and is found on a man's tunic depicted in a Roman mosaic at the Villa Romana del Casale in Sicily. It is known most widely as an important symbol long used in Indian religions, denoting "auspiciousness." It was adopted as such in pre-World War I-Europe and later, and most notably, by the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany prior to World War II. In many Western countries, the swastika has been stigmatized because of its use in Nazism.[4] It continues to be commonly used as a religious symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism.[3] - Wiki

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Where did you see those being flown? I didnt see any in DC or VA when I was there a few months ago... Only in the museums we went to.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Can't have your cake and eat it to. Either we have free speech or we don't
Can't regulate away everything somebody dislikes.

I don't see anybody criticizing the Black Panther's flag and what it means,.... How about ISIS,... How about the LGBT flag,... and so on, there will always be somebody not liking it.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I agree, and it comes down to the people speaking out, always has. When the mass disapproves, you will get some movement. Like it or not.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Is it really what the confederate flag represented or what comes to mind when people see the flag that is causing issues? How can you guys not understand that? I get the its not suppose to be racist its not suppose to be bad...people fought and died for it. Why did they have to fight though? Why did people die for it? What was some of the most controversial rights and behaviors the confederate states wanted to keep? Maybe that is what offends people???


I dont understand the waving Mexican flag at graduation comment lol how many times have you not seen Olympic athletes have two flags one for the team they rep the other for their heritage. People cant die for one spectrum and be completely oblivious to the other side. If anything that is way more un educated then somebody getting offended at a image that brings bad memories to mind even though this image itself was suppose to stand for freedom lol RIDICOUleeezzz yo!

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

What about it? No one is saying that you personally cannot fly the confed flag. they are saying that it should not be flown on government buildings. which is 100% true, because last time i checked even the southern states (whether some people like it or not) are part of the USA.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Who are "they".
And who are they to say what can and cannot be flown over a building when it comes to history and it's meaning?

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

^ Now this carries some weight, and I agree....even though im African not African american lol that term makes me laugh. Again i will stick with what i said. The extremes are not ok, extremes cause issues, the either its this way or that way i wont agree with. Politically i stay neutral and to some that's worst that sticking to the wrong side. However not coming to sensible agreements and wanting it your way or the highway DOES NOT WORK lol Somebody answer me why it has to be either complete freedom with no restrictions what so ever, vs freedom with sense and principle?

Are Caesar's laws not there to guide and keep relative order? So why bicker and complain, funny thing is every flag in this solar system has some kind of negative connotation to eat literally every single FLAG period. For anything but discussion and entertainment person this debate is useless....for only unfair judgement will come from it and people on both sides un happy and hurt lol

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

New Jersey

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

and it wasnt so much about states rights as it was about an opposing army rebelling against the formation of a Union to form the USA. Im sorry but the confederates lost the civil war, and are now part of the USA. The war is not still going on. get over it.
The negative image that is now that flag, is entirely self brought on. Uneducated idiots took it as their symbol that slavery should still exist and to promote a racial boundary. Sure you have your freedom of speech, but even with free speech you are stereotyping yourself with a negative image. Just like the black panther flags make me stereotype them as a angry black man, against whitey, and like was said before Nazi Flags and Tattoos have a negative connotation to them as well. It would be like a skinhead saying his tattoos and flags are not racist, they were about the rise of the german people and taking their country back. Sorry but I am not naive.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

They, are the people. They are the ones who the government works for. They are the Voters. They are masses of people who disagree with you. They are black, white, asian, brown, native american, hindu, muslim etc.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

It's very simple, let the voters in those states in question decide, it's a state-level issue, not national.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Thats pretty cool, but yea the 13 star flag doesnt have much negative association surrounding it, so it will continue to fly.

How can you guys not see the obvious issues here? Im all for freedom of speech and displaying your history.. but this seems like a common sense issue.

And yes it should be a state issue, not federal. It will get national attention though either way.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

TLDR:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1d065d49f8.jpg

Then:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...oGf0rcDoOrYUlQ
































http://www.turtlesale.com/home/uploa...%20640-454.jpg

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

But this is the beauty of a Republic, the individual is protected from the whims of the masses. Freedom of speech is protected for that reason.