Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

With the recent idiotic limiting of saying the words climate change, and global warming, it should occur to everyone that these people are idiots. Denying climate change is like denying gravity. We have a 97% consensus among CLIMATE SCIENTISTS, that global climate change is real and we have made measurements. This is not a political issue. Its a real and true issue with measurements to back it up.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/...limate-change/
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/stat...e12983720.html

It is ridiculous that we could get a 97% consensus of anything among scientists, but when we live in a time when we have the technology to prove that Climate change is happening and we are responsible, its time that politicians get with the fucking program and start looking at scientists on how to correct the issue. The first step is admitting something is real that has been proven, the next is to set up the funding to correct it.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
We have the evidence, we know its true. We are seeing signs everywhere of this trend. And its not Just about global warming of the earth, but in air quality, Example Bejing China, Another Example California drought and the fact that they have barely enough water to make it though a year.
Lets get in 2015 now, and stop denying a fact because of political lines and being afraid of change.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Agreed, curious who will deny it. Its all about the short term though, doing anything about it means big money spending to fix the issues and regulate things. Money in which the US doesnt have...

No idea how anyone cannot see that people are the number 1 cause of any devastation around the globe. People refute the fact that things are changing and say its natural. Some of it is natural, the earth is always changing, but you cant deny that man made emissions wont hurt things long term.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Wait... You mean Earth's natural ecosystem wasn't meant to handle CO and CO2, plastic, and nuclear waste?

We could potentially change here in the states, but do you think an economic powerhouse like China is going to do anything? Highly doubtful.

If this isn't a political issue, why is it in the Politics section!?

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Thats the thing. It takes the US and other nations in the UN to actually do a GLOBAL change for global climate change. Which means all nations must abide by this, including china, ESPECIALLY China..

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

And when China agrees to change, but doesn't actually do anything, what happens then? Sanctions? 90% of the world depends on their manufacturing and cheap labor.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Looks like China is already changing its ways. Closing the last of 4 coal power plants soon.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ctric-vehicles

Looks like India is the next China though........

http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/why-i...tal-footsteps/

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Thats the big question. And one i wouldnt know how to solve. Does it take an Industrial Derevolution where people stop buying new iphones every year, or manufacturers find new methods of building that arent so polluting and wasteful and unbearable for workers. I dunno.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

I wish they would stop outsourcing production to China either way, It's too bad we cannot bring that back to the states because of how expensive it is. The stuff they make in China is complete junk to begin with.

I remember an article, that showed a large screen in China so that people could see what the sunset and sunrise looked like to put an example of how bad it is their. India secondly is a pretty disgusting place in certain parts and they definitely need to start looking at a solution.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that the climate is changing. It always has and it always will. The thing being argued about is how much of an impact humans are actually having on it? Are we causing 10% of the change, 90%? We really don't know.

in the 70's there was a scare of a mini-ice age. This was well past when the industrial revolution happened and global warming should have started. I have seen too many graphs with an agenda that use a specific date range to try and further their cause. If you look at longer date ranges you can see fluctuations are normal. Look at this graphic for example:

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/ne...lies_final.gif

It was cooler early on and warmer recently, but we are talking about a 1*F change from 1860 to today! I hardly think that is enough of a change to announce the sky is falling. That could simply be a high point in the cycle and we could head lower again in the future. We have already seen that temps have stabilized over the last few years.

There are lots of factors that go in to global temperatures and most of them are much more significant than the factors we are playing in it. That isn't to say we aren't having some impact, but I think it is being overstated by some and it is simply too early to really be able to tell.

Now that doesn't mean I am against doing obvious changes to better the climate, smog and other things are obviously bad. If you look at CO2 emissions in the US you will see that cars are not actually that significant of an impact any more. It is still a pretty big chunk, but it does not seem out of line.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ima...nsBySource.png

Now when you look at what is going on in the rest of the world compared to the US, that is where I get concerned. We need to get some of the developing countries on track.

http://www.americanthinker.com/legac.../assets/BP.png

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Shhhhh, I'm hunting wabbits,......

I'm not going to step into the argument that will obiviously erupt in this thread over "climate change". So I'll just leave this here.
Prominent physicist Freeman Dyson: ‘It would be crazy to try to reduce CO2′ – ‘Earth is growing greener as a result of carbon dioxide’

Share the facts at CFACT's Climate Depot: http://www.climatedepot.com/

Dyson: 'There certainly is an enormous religion in which there are lots of true believers who think that climate change is evil and that we're going to run into big catastrophes if we don't do something drastic. That's a sort of belief system which exists...I don't understand it and I don't pretend to understand their motives.'

But, I will say droughts in California are nothing new, there's been a long standing history of it. The difference today is that because of the EPA. Californian farmers are not getting the water they need to get through it. And with me saying that, you're gonna ask "what the hell am I talking about"?

Lets start with this:
http://westernfarmpress.com/blog/cal...er-305-minnows
or this
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/2...entral-valley/
or this
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...84731898375624

And I could go on and those with blinders will call me crazy (Askme if I care?) and those with a functional intellect will start getting the bigger picture.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

I agree with a lot of your points, except the assumption that we do not know if we are in a high or low point. We do through the many tools they are using such as testing ice cores and other samples.
A 1* difference can actually have a significant impact. Remember we are talking about global averages, not the swing of weather. A 1* difference may not make a difference to humans, but plants, animals and insects it will affect such as migratory patterns.

I think the focus of talks needs to shift on a global scale and not a country scale, and the UN needs to be the driving force in this. While countries like China and Indonesia, and india are becoming some of the largest polluters, we cannot let our own get out of control as we are the ones consuming the products they are producing. So it is a US problem as well as a problem for China. we are the demand they are the supply.

Man made can come in many forms, not just automobiles, Autos are something that is the easiest to change. As americans we see the benefit not just from the environment but from the fact that we save at the pump by getting better gas mileage. So its an easy change for the administration to say "All auto manufacturers need to be above x mpg by this date" it gives a decent return for the environment and americans will hopefully welcome it with savings at the pump.
The other forms of human involvement is the use of fertilizers, Livestock overproduction (methane), dirty energies, and other stuff are more problematic to try and change. But regardless we need to on a global scale to set the precedent for other countries. This is a good change to show the world we are an innovator, not just a consumer.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Freeman Dyson is a fucking loon. He has long been known in the industry as not an innovator but a theoretical physist who doesnt live in this world.
He was one of the bright guys who thought this was a good idea...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project..._propulsion%29
and also this
"I consider it likely that we shall have “genetically engineered carbon-eating trees” within twenty years, and almost certainly within fifty years.
Carbon-eating trees could convert most of the carbon that they absorb from the atmosphere into some chemically stable form and bury it underground. Or they could convert the carbon into liquid fuels and other useful chemicals. Biotechnology is enormously powerful, capable of burying or transforming any molecule of carbon dioxide that comes into its grasp…. If one quarter of the world’s forests were replanted with carbon-eating varieties of the same species, the forests would be preserved as ecological resources and as habitats for wildlife, and the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would be reduced by half in about fifty years."

Please choose a better example. you probably wont find one.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

http://climate.nasa.gov/system/conte...h-1280x800.jpg

To deny humans are increasing problem is having blinders on.... http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ Also for politicians to keep pull a curtain over all this info we are discussing, is nuts. Since Nasa even supports human climate change and is a govt entity.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Lol, loon or not, he has a valid point. CO2 is needed for plant life to produce oxygen.
Don't know about the "genetic trees" thing, never saw that. But, all plant life consumes carbon dioxide.

Take a look into the "Atlantic Converyor" to understand climate temperature fluctuations.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Obviously green life lives off C02... the issue is that its increasing past the norm over centuries, where does it stop?

Viscous, can you really state that all the "pollution" from cars, factories, etc has no affect on the world as a whole? Sure it makes the world economy go round, but that's not the point.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

If you look at the chart I posted above you can see the greenhouse emissions by the US is at the same level from 1990 and is in a slow downward trend. I think the US is doing quite well. We obviously are one of the leaders in this area when you look at the size of our economy and the amount of gasses we produce.

Yes the climate has changed by 1*F in 150 years, but we know it has changed much more drastically than that in the past without any human intervention. Remember the Ice Ages? If you look at the very long term global temps you will see we are actually at a very low point! This is not what the Global Warming Scare Machine wants to you look at though.

http://geology.utah.gov/wp-content/u.../ice_ages1.gif

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Mars is a very good example of what happens when you have TOO much Co2, which is the point, too much CO2 will kill off plantlife as is the case with mars.
There is a reason that when nasa looks for goldilocks planets they rule out planets that has an atmosphere with too much CO2. (and yes they can tell what the atmosphere is made of by using a spectrograph when the planet passes in front of a star).

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

The map you posted is kinda decieving. Lets take this one and data analysis from Nasa: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Fea...ming/page3.php
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Fea...nstruction.png
"Models predict that Earth will warm between 2 and 6 degrees Celsius in the next century. When global warming has happened at various times in the past two million years, it has taken the planet about 5,000 years to warm 5 degrees. The predicted rate of warming for the next century is at least 20 times faster. This rate of change is extremely unusual."

More supporting material
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Fea...ming/page4.php

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

I totally agree with what JET is saying. Looking at temps over the last 150 years and trying to predict a trend is just laughable. The earth is billions of years old. 150 years worth of data means nothing. Now I realize you guys have posted some cute graphs on temperatures beyond 150 years, but that data is probably making some assumptions and approximations. So its guess work at best. Our real record keeping only goes back to the 1800s.

With that being said, I do believe humans are causing a lot of pollution and we need to fix it. CO2 levels are too high, plus a lot of other issues. But there just isn't enough data out there to know if this pollution is really causing the temps to increase. And if it is, by how much?

later,
Curt

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Of course not.

But the planet has many, many systems in place to deal with it. There have been many natural dissasters thoughout history that were immediately more devistating to the climate than mankind ever was/is, and yet here we are.

In looking around at what the "Do as We Say, Not as We Do" crowd that keeps pushing this agenda of "Climate Change" does in their personal lives, you can't but wonder how much of it is a scam.

But lets do a little reality check.
We had "Global Warming" models 20-30 years ago that said we would basically be dead by now or living in flooded areas because the ocean levels would have risen to extreme levels, covering up most of the USA.
We were told by ManPigBear (Al Gore) that by now there would be no more ice caps because they would have all melted away, yet we have record growth and record cooling. This coming from a man who built a home in Tenn. that uses 20 times the resources of the average American home. It's almost like he forgot what solar, wind and thermal energy was.
Cars run cleaner than they ever have. Any industrial factory built in the USA in the past 20 years are cleaner than ever, in some cases the air and water coming out of them are cleaner than what goes in.

So yeah, call me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

+1

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

lol @ expecting instant results. Once you see the results, it will be a tad too late.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

If you want to see actual high CO2 levels somewhere, you should walk through a shredded cheese processing facility. Our normal ambient levels hover around 400ppm, the cheese plants I've been to have tested between 3000 and 6500ppm with our test equipment. It always gives me a headache, the workers that are there every day don't notice a thing.

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

I assume you're responding to me?

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/e...limate-reality
Wednesday, 08 April 2015

For more than two decades the world has been subjected to a growing cacophony of doomsayers — politicians, environmental activists, scientists, academics, and media mavens — demanding global action to stop anthropogenic (human-caused) global warming, or AGW. The AGW threat, we have been told incessantly, is “apocalyptic” and “existential” in magnitude, endangering all life on planet Earth: melting icecaps, melting glaciers, rising sea levels, floods, droughts, desertification, “extreme weather,” species extinction, etc.

However, contrary to the dire predictions of the alarmists, the Earth has not been heating up. In fact, for more than the past 18 years global mean temperatures have stayed steady, or have slightly cooled, according to the satellite readings. If you are unaware of this fact, or doubt its authenticity, that is not surprising; the powers that be in the worlds of politics and media have gone to incredible lengths to cover up this important truth with continued policies and headlines proclaiming the alleged impending perils from “climate change.” They are hoping to build public support for global punitive taxes and regulations at the United Nations’ Climate Summit in Paris later this year.

It is impossible to exaggerate the potential harm that UN proposals pose to the economic viability of civilization, to national sovereignty, and to individual freedom. The AGW fear mongering has already been used by the UN and governments to transfer hundreds of billions of dollars from taxpayers to “climate researchers” and favored “green” energy sources. Now they are demanding trillions of dollars — and vast new regulatory police powers — for AGW “mitigation,” “adaptation,” “reparation,” and other “transformational” global strategies.

Obviously, it will be very difficult for the AGW proponents to win support for the radical, ruinously costly UN proposals if there is no measurable warming and, therefore, no “crisis” to justify the extreme measures. Hence, it is important to note that it is not merely AGW “skeptics” and “deniers” who are claiming that global warming stopped 18-plus years ago; even leading AGW alarmists — individuals and institutions — have publicly acknowledged this as a fact. Yes, it is true, although it is not widely known. Here are a few examples:

• UK Met Office/Phil Jones: The United Kingdom’s National Weather Service, known as the Met Office, quietly released a report in October 2012 acknowledging that “global warming” had actually stopped more than 15 years earlier, that is, since early 1997. In sharp contrast with its usual heated rhetoric, the Met report noted that there had been no discernible rise in global temperatures since 1997. Zero. None. The Met Office’s Hadley Center and the now-disgraced Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia — the institution at the center of the infamous ClimateGate scandal — have been joint gatekeepers of global temperature data, and prime promoters of AGW hysteria. Dr. Phil Jones, the CRU boss who was exposed and discredited in the ClimateGate scandal, admitted, in an interview with the UK’s Daily Mail, that global temperatures have been on a “plateau,” but attempted to downplay the significance of this very significant fact that contradicts the catastrophic AGW scenarios produced by the computer climate models.

• The New York Times’ Justin Gillis: In his June 10, 2013 article “What to Make of the Climate-Change Plateau,” Justin Gillis, one of the Times’ most rabid AGW alarmists, concedes that the then-15-year “lull in warming has occurred even as greenhouse gases have accumulated in the atmosphere at a record pace,” but warns that we should not let this “mystery” dampen our AGW concerns.

• National Public Radio (NPR): NPR has been in the forefront of the AGW prop*aganda choir. In an August 29, 2013 piece entitled “A Cooler Pacific May Be Behind Recent Pause in Global Warming,” NPR looked to the oceans to “help explain why the Earth’s average temperature hasn’t increased during the past 15 years.” This common AGW excuse — “the oceans ate the global warming” — is bereft of any scientific underpinning (the temperature data show the oceans have cooled also) but is popular with the alarmists.

The citations above could be multiplied many times over. When cornered, many of the most publicly recognized AGW proponents will concede that there has been no warming of global temperatures for 18 or more years. Variously described in climatological circles as a “pause,” “hiatus,” or “plateau,” the multi-year lull has provided a fatal falsification to the computer models that have predicted continuous escalating global temperatures. The pause has not ceased over the past couple of years; the hiatus has continued, much to the chagrin of the alarmists.

“So far, no one has been able to provide a compelling answer to why climate change seems to be taking a break,” Dr. Hans Von Storch told Germany’s Der Spiegel in June 2013. “We’re facing a puzzle,” said meteorologist Von Storch, director of the Helmholtz Center in Hamburg and an IPCC lead author. “Recent CO2 emissions have actually risen even more steeply than we feared. As a result, according to most climate models, we should have seen temperatures rise by around 0.25 degrees Celsius (0.45 degrees Fahrenheit) over the past 10 years. That hasn’t happened. In fact, the increase over the last 15 years was just 0.06 degrees Celsius (0.11 degrees Fahrenheit) — a value very close to zero. This is a serious scientific problem that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will have to confront when it presents its next Assessment Report.”

Professor Judith Curry, former chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Science at the Georgia Institute of Technology, told UK’s Daily Mail: “Climate models are very complex, but they are imperfect and incomplete. Natural variability [the impact of factors such as long-term temperature cycles in the oceans and the output of the sun] has been shown over the past two decades to have a magnitude that dominates the greenhouse warming effect.”

Dr. Curry, who was formerly known as a “high priestess of global warming” but now cautions against alarmist claims, is one of the most reasonable voices in the climatology establishment. She notes, “It is becoming increasingly apparent that our attribution of warming since 1980 and future projections of climate change needs to consider natural internal variability as a factor of fundamental importance.”

This, of course, is what many renowned scientists and climatologists have been saying for years: The alleged global warming is so minute that, from a historical perspective, it cannot be distinguished from natural variability. But, for her candor, and for contradicting the AGW “party line,” Dr. Curry has also been subjected to the personal attacks and smears that have greeted other courageous and truthful AGW realists.

It is interesting to note, however, that even the CRU’s Phil Jones has also admitted to the defects of the vaunted climate models and the important role of natural variability. “We don’t fully understand how to input things like changes in the oceans, and because we don’t fully understand it you could say that natural variability is now working to suppress the warming,” he told the Daily Mail. “We don’t know what natural variability is doing,” Jones continued.

This is precisely what esteemed scientists such as Richard Lindzen, Timothy Ball, William Happer, Freeman Dyson, John Christy, Roy Spencer, Vincent Gray, Christopher Essex, Fred Singer, and hundreds of others have been saying — and demonstrating — for years.

Allow us to cite one more example out of many that could be brought to bear. On June 6, 2007, the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition published an analysis of seasonal climate predictions made by the New Zealand Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA) showing that the Institute did not even achieve 50 percent accuracy. Director Dr. Jim Renwick’s response was telling. “Climate prediction is hard, half of the variability in the climate system is not predictable, so we don’t expect to do terrifically well,” he told the New Zealand Herald. Dr. Renwick, who is an IPCC lead author and a member of the UN’s World Meteorological Organization (WMO) Commission for Climatology Expert Team on Seasonal Forecasting, stated on New Zealand Radio, “The weather is not predictable beyond a week or two.”

This is huge! Phil Jones, a top AGW guru, admits “we don’t know what natural variability is doing,” and Judith Curry says that the climate models are “imperfect and incomplete” and natural causes “dominate” human effects on global temperatures. And IPCC/WMO bigwig Jim Renwick concedes his organization’s climate predictions are wrong more than half the time — and they can’t predict the weather more than two weeks out. Yet, we are supposed to empower national and international politicians and bureaucrats to completely regulate, re-engineer, tax, and regiment human civilization on a planetary scale, based upon the same faulty computer models that have universally, spectacularly failed — over and over again.

Self-discrediting Predictions

Figure 1 (below), known colloquially as the “IPCC Spaghetti Graph,” is taken from the IPCC’s 2013 Working Group 1 Fifth Assessment Report (IPCC WG1 AR5). The multi-colored lines on the graph represent the projections of the dozens of computer-generated climate models, virtually all of which project greatly exaggerated warming of global temperatures owing, supposedly, to increased carbon dioxide from human use of fossil fuels. The trajectories of the projections are, universally, inclined sharply upward — in marked contrast to the dark black line that shows the actual, observed global temperatures, as measured by the average of four satellite, radiosonde, and surface station datasets. Obviously, the IPCC’s computer models are totally at odds with reality, as the experts cited above (and in the related article "Scientists Debunk Climate Models") point out. This enormous discrepancy can be easily grasped by the layman — if he is allowed to see it — which is why it has been suppressed by the same AGW media alarmists who have plastered the infamous “Hockey Stick” graph everywhere.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images...sc/figure1.jpg

Incompetence or Fraud?

Remember the Hockey Stick graph, which was a centerpiece of Al Gore’s AGW prop*aganda triumph, An Inconvenient Truth? Often referred to as the “Mann Hockey Stick” for its main originator, IPCC lead author Michael Mann, the chart appeared in the IPCC’s 2001 Third Assessment Report. It is called the Hockey Stick because the temperature “reconstruction” of the past millennium (1000-2000 A.D.) looks flat (like the handle of a hockey stick) for the first 1,900 years, and then shoots dramatically upward in the 20th century, appearing to validate the AGW hype of Al Gore and the IPCC. As it turned out, however, Mann and company had only been able to smooth out the 1,000-year handle and achieve their spectacular Hockey Stick by deleting the Medieval Warm Period altogether! Not only that, but when the graph came under close examination and other researchers requested access to the data and methodology used to achieve the Hockey Stick, Mann refused to release the information. For good reason: Mann and his cohorts had cooked their data and engaged in unethical (some say even criminal) practices, as the ClimateGate e-mail scandal revealed.

The IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report (AR4, 2007) also contained the Mann Hockey Stick, but it was buried among many other projection curves. The IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report (AR5, 2013) dropped the Mann Hockey Stick altogether, apparently deciding that it had become such an embarrassing scandal that it was time for it to quietly disappear.

Figure 2 (below) demonstrates chicanery by the climatology cabal at NOAA and NASA, led by notorious AGW activist Dr. James Hansen. Like Michael Mann and his IPCC cohorts, the NOAA/NASA folks have simply wiped out inconvenient temperature data to obtain the trend curve that will match their political agenda. In this case, it means wiping out the heat waves of the 1930s to get the curve that will show the 1990s to be leading us into a new hotter era. Prior to the year 2000, NOAA/NASA showed U.S. temperatures cooling since the 1930s, and 1934 much hotter than 1998. However, right after 2000, they altered the U.S. climate history record to fit the AGW agenda, making the past much colder and the current years much hotter.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images...sc/figure2.jpg

Unfortunately for the Hansen/NASA/NOAA gang, their colleagues at the equally AGW-activist EPA apparently didn’t get the memo that the data had been altered and so didn’t destroy the 1930s temperature data, as Figure 3 (below) shows. As of this writing, the EPA website still includes the graph cited above showing the 1930s as decidedly much hotter than present times.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images...sc/figure3.jpg

Figure 4 (below), taken from the IPCC AR5, is yet another example of inadvertent admission by the AGW alarmists that their hysterical projections of climate doom are stunningly, ridiculously erroneous. As the admitted global temperature “hiatus” of nearly two decades continues to deflate the hyped-up AGW fears, the central argument of “CO2 forcing” and “CO2 sensitivity” has taken a dive. Thus, methane is being put forward as the new bogeyman that will drive global warming. And the appropriate response, say the alarmists, is to reduce methane or “risk global catastrophe” (as Cornell Professor Robert Howarth and others claim). However, as the IPCC graph shows, the computer model projections for the increases in methane production are wildly off from actual methane production. Moreover, methane makes a negligible contribution to global temperatures in the total scheme of greenhouse gases.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images...sc/figure4.jpg

We have here dealt with only a small sample of the many scandalous examples of tampering, trickery, and outright fraud employed by the global warming alarm lobby. Pierre L. Gosselin’s NoTrickZone.com lists 129 climate scandals that should shake the confidence of even the most diehard climate alarmist. After all, if “the science is settled,” why not let “science” speak for itself? Why engage in non-stop, wild exaggeration and blatant — even criminal — deception?

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Mercury is closer to the Sun yet Venus is hotter due to it's atmosphere being mostly carbon dioxide. It's thought that the amounts of carbon dioxide on Earth is similar to that of Venus - except that most of the carbon dioxide on Earth is stored in organic material that is buried deep in the ground and in the polar ice caps.

Melting polar ice caps contain organic material that is being released due to melting. Oil use also releases carbon dioxide. Humans are pulling carbon dioxide out of the ground and putting it into the atmosphere.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Your graph goes back 1500 years, mine goes back Millions! It isn't that they are saying anything different, yours is just a small snapshot compared to the other one and is a bit deceiving because of the limited sample size. I also agree with Curt and that any data over 100 years old is an educated guess at best, event the 100 year old data is nothing compared to what we get now.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Read on,....

http://notrickszone.com/#sthash.bVsnZfjy.dpbs

http://notrickszone.com/climate-scan....puxFgnzU.dpbs

http://notrickszone.com/100-papers-s....qMw88kuP.dpbs

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

So many experts regarding all topics on this board!

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

:lol:

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

About what I expected from Steve, no actual facts or discussion. :) Also lol at cheese factory. Toxic gases in my pants also rise to extreme levels after some tacos.

If you don't have any useful rebuttal, why post.

While I do agree the temp swings are drastic over centuries and even longer, the scientific evidence from ancient times is that, factual evidence. The issue is pollution and other man made changes and how they affect the earth, not just temps. If you cant see humans having a negative impact hen you dont really know how things work.... I think most people who have posted are on board with that. Select few don't seem to be though, everything is magically okay.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Despite whatever people think about the cause global warming, I do think that in general finding more efficient and cleaner ways to generate and consume power is a good thing.

As far as I know, of all the different forms of power generation, options are pretty limited when it comes to reliable base load power generation with little/no greenhouse emissions (*insert shameless nuclear plug* :) )

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Honestly, the problem seems to be the selling of Global Warming to people who dont seem to get that this is a Huge fucking problem. You can sit there and say oh its not that big of a deal Its one degree, or its 5 degrees. Science is not good at selling the fact that 1-5 DEGREES IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL. The Rate it is changing is a big deal. Science can quantify and create models around the changes, but the selling of it, is not easy.
They can make predictions and tell the politicians the sky is falling we need to correct this issue, but the politicians tend to say, well how am i supposed to sell this to the public that we need to change our ways. This is a human problem, it has to do with every aspect of all of our lives. from the way we eat, the way we drive, the products we use on a daily basis.
Science comes off as being bullys sometimes because it deals in hard facts. They dont make up data, consensus conclusions are peer reviewed, and they go where the data follows. Where things get messed up is the interpretation of what science is telling us by non science people. Al Gore was trying to sell this idea and got blasted by right wing. He was trying to get people talking about it and making the hard sell.
Regardless of the interpretation, a 97% consensus is UNHEARD OF in any science conclusion and should be listened to. UNHEARD OF.
This Graphic expresses my point exactly:
http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--...Available.jpeg
Science shouldnt give a flying fuck what the public thinks. Because they are wrong. I dont ask the cashier at cub medical advice, i ask a doctor.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

The folks here with the PhD's in Fox News have it all figured out so I'll stop worrying now.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

How do you know? Because some college professor or archeologist said so?
We only have about a true 200 year scientifically documented record of temps so every thing else is speculation or madeup.

And how many things have been done to improve the enviroment? Plenty, and at great cost. So I don't get the "Sky is Falling" approach to it.

Considering the posts I made above earlier in this thread , let me ask this question to anybody here.
If what you were taught or told about about climate change was misleading and false, how would you feel about it then?

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Right,.........

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Like a true believer in science I'd move on. It seems the sources that claim climate change is bs are also happy to tell me to buy gold and silver at the top. Anti-liberal opinions mistakenly called news are big business.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Its called scientific research? lol These figures aren't just pulled out of someones butt. While they might not be actual readings from a thermometer, there is a scientific process to figure these types of things out.

Some reading on how past climate is analyzed.
http://www.theguardian.com/environme...rature-proxies

And when it comes to all things, some bunk stuff will come out of theories. Like the past climate change stuff you posted. Its an ongoing issue that will take years and years to figure out. While the sky might not be falling, steps towards a greener environment are common sense.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

How do we know, You can tell from trees (spacing of rings), from snowice , you can tell from soil samples.
If there were a 97% consensus that climate change was false, then it would be done. if it were proven beyond a reasonable doubt that cars improved the atmosphere and was healthy to breath, then i would be for it. YOU FOLLOW FACTS not someones Opinion who has a vested interest in denying.

Re: Climate Change - Stop the bullshit already.
 

Thought I'd add some of my real world experience, so far the only such occurrence in any of these silly threads. Does it have much to do with this thread, probably not. But I explain the effects of CO2 on food to engineers all day, so it's kinda interesting.

Because any useful rebuttal is a waste of time, I was really interested in this topic and read a ton of books about it 12-13 years ago, the arguments and end result hasn't changed since then. It's more fun just to make fun of you guys arguing about this senseless waste of time since nobody's opinion is going to change one way or another. If you believe global warming/cooling/climate change is man-made, no amount of charts, graphs and data are going to sway you otherwise.

Damn, I've already broken my rule about only posting pictures from now on in all political threads. Just seems appropriate. :D