Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Well this will be my first motor rebuilt/build So I am seeing what everyone thinks, and can suggest to help me out. I am going to take everything out with the help of a good friend. (not my first motor removal nor his, as he is a ase certified mechanic and owns a build 2.6L srt4) anyways so I dont get asked if I ever worked on a car. lol. Heres what Im thinking after searching around and talking to a couple guys.

I am going to just rebuild the head and block since they have 115k on them.

thinking this for the bottom end

http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/A...build-Kit.html

And do this as well

http://www.maperformance.com/ams-4g6...l#.UPbv6_JUok0

Or just send my block to map and do this

http://www.maperformance.com/maperfo...l#.UPbwLPJUok0

Just trying to keep price down, yet dont want so skimp on anything Im doing it right once so it dont have to happen again.

What pistons should I go with standard or .020 over? Or would that be something the machine shop has to figure out depending on my sleeves?

I wanted to do a 2.4L stroker but Nate at map thinks just re building the 2.0 would be best since it would last longer and just do 9.0.1 pistons would help spin it faster. Thoughts?

That kit has pretty much everything for the bottom end, Would I need to resurface the crank? Its fine right now, cars just running on low compression. Didnt even bother on doing a leak down since I want to just rebuild both top and bottom end.

What would you guys suggest for a head? I will re-use my cosworth m2 cams, and ARP head studs. IDK if I will bother porting it, I only want to make whatever I can with current mods on Shane's dyno. Hopeing close to 400. But I want something that would handle 450/500 hp no problem if I ever decide to upgrade the turbo. I really couldnt find anything on a DIY head rebuild so maybe just say F it and send it to map for new valves, springs, kiggly HLA, seals etc and assemble it with cams and such. So I can get it and bolt her on the block.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

My best advice is to do everything through one shop so they're responsible for everything. MAP puts together nice blocks and heads. For what you're looking for, you should be just fine with a 9.0:1 MAP Stage 1 2.0L and a head rebuild with some mild porting. Your current valves can most likely be reused unless they're damaged, but they'll replace the guides and seats with the rebuild. While they're in there also get some upgrade beehive springs. MAP will worry about the overbore and crank; depending on the condition of your core they'll machine appropriately. Do NOT reuse your ARP headstuds, despite what you've heard they are once time use only and you do risk failure by reusing.

Check out this build thread for an almost entirely MAP setup I'm currently working on:
http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/sho...=29098&page=12

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Why do you need a built motor on a stock turbo car? You can make plenty more power safely on the stock motor. Save your money ;)

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

His compression numbers are low, from the PM with him sounds like he just wants to freshen things up.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Couldn't he freshen up the stock motor though if he isn't looking for crazy power? New rings/ get the head looked at, maybe honed and some new bearings would be a lot cheaper than a full build.

I'm also kind of confused on how a stroker motor wouldn't last as long as a 2.0. Could anybody explain that one to me?

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Ah, that makes sense then.

Tyler, out of curiosity, what are your compression numbers?

Honestly, if you wanted more displacement, I would go with a 2.3 vs a 2.4 on an Evo. The head gasket options just kind of suck with 2.4's and they seem to have a hard time keeping head gaskets in them without o-ringing the block. Just seems like much less of a headache.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

130-110-85-110

I will probably eventually upgrade the turbo later on which is why i want something that would be fine for either stock and possible stock frame upgrade (ef2 or fp green)

Im not looking on sending a ton just want a fresh motor and freshen everything up so i don't have to worry. I honestly don't care on power i just want something to take autoX days and dragging at pg2013

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

I would have to imagine it has to do with rod ratios and piston speed.
I agree. If you do want more displacement, the 2.3 seems to make more sense than the 2.4 since it retains the OEM block, crank, and MIVEC oiling system for IX's.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

I have a nicely built 2.4 with a nice turbo setup i would be willing to part with for the right amount of coin.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

This is an Evo IX, not a dsm.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

No I dont *need* a stroker just thought it'd be cool and always have the set up if I wanted to further upgrade. But I am thinking just rebuild the 2.0 either that ams kit because its somewhat cheaper than maps 2.0 stage 1. But if a stroker does come into play, it will be a 2.3 I didnt know that all had to be tinkered just to do it.

Other misc things I am going to do while motors out,

Send trans and t case to map (jacks) to get freshened up just a basic rebuild nothing too serious

Rebuild my twin disc

Do rear diff mod and if it needs em replace the discs

DIY coil on plug set up

Ported exhaust manifold and ceramic coat it


But I do think I will just send long block to map since I can just do financing since I will only have ~$3/5K to play with come taxes and that'll have to also buy me a civic DD I want. Really sucks, I didnt think this was going to happen but creeping on chuckee's evom profile found a thread he had about it running lower compression so that made me do the test and surprise still has low(well now lower) compression.

Thought about selling the car, but ive wanted a WW IX SSL for way to long to just sell it, also thinking about just letting it sit in storage till its paid off than do everything (hate building up a car that isnt paid off) than rebuilding it. Which is still a option.. I guess we will see when taxes come what I wanna do. Thanks to a new much better paying job paying the build/loan payments shouldnt be bad. But Fuuuu I never could see myself paying payments or using credit to build a car lol.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

The DIY kit may be cheaper, but remember you would still have to pay for machining, DIY assembly, and not have a warranty on any of it.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

DIY assembly would be practically free since me and a friend would do it, but that is true I would have to pay for machining and there wouldnt be any sort of warranty.

and I have learned warranty's are worth the extra $

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

I'd personally spend a little more for the added displacement of a 2.3 or 2.4.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Agreed, the only extra cost would be the crank since you are doing rods and pistons anyway.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

2.3L retains the stock 4G63 crank.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Quoted for proof.

I think you meant to say they use the stock block, but obviously you need a different crank for the .3 extra displacement via longer stroke. Can't overbore that much.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

LOL, nice quote. No idea what Hughes was thinking there. Maybe he started drinking already?

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

I know the pain of building a car you're still paying on lol. I'm in the same boat. I would definitely recommend just having map do your shortblock. They did a great job with mine. If you're in mn and not dead set on having one shop do both the head and engine I would recommend at least looking into cylinder head express in blaine. They have done a lot of 4g63 stuff including stuff for Rau. I have had them do a couple heads for me and both have been top notch. They will be cheaper than map especially if you have any port work done and their turn around time will probably be considerably less too.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Yes Im like 45 miles S of mankato. I figured if i had map do the motor id drive there drop it off and go pick it up to avoid shipping costs.

Just gotta figured everything out figure what i should do before i pull the trigger.

Thanks everyone for suggestions i really appreciate it.

Now either map s1 or 2.3 stoker. Or leave the bish in the garage untill its paid off. Kinda, Im still dding it till i get a dd car.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Oh ok so you're pretty far away. If you're not going to have any port work done map and cylinder head express will cost about the same but if you're going to have it ported they might be worth looking into. I saved a lot of money going through them vs map. There are pics of my head in my build thread. You can pm if you want specifics on what I paid and what not

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Where in Blaine is that shop you speak of?

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

It's basically right off of highway 10 and 65. It's kind of back by Letterman sports

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Ok, back kinda near where elite was too? I heard they were expensive. I use a shop in andover called.Northern Cylinder Head, prices are untouchable. Kinda tin shed feeling place, old dude working there, I love it!

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Kind of but I think elite was a little farther north. If you're going north on ten you take a right at the first stop light just north of 10 then the first right you can take and they're just down a little ways on the left.

As for them being expensive maybe if you have them get all the parts. I had to replace the valves I got those from map cause map was like $200 less than if I got them through CHE. For completely rebuilding my head and a complete port and polish they were like 1k less than it would have cost at map.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

So im figuring send block to map for either a rebuild 2.0 or a 2.3

than take my head to either one of the shops you guys are suggesting (to save $) have them tell me what it needs and buy the parts from map.

-MAP beehive springs and retainers
-re use valves (if I can)
-OEM seals
-Re use cosworth m2 (272/272) cams
-Get new MAP head studs or buy new ARP studs
-OEM gaskets

I think I am going to try one of these turbos. I've read a couple reviews on evom many good reviews on it, and I know in the srt 4 community (where I came from) these turbos are a big hit, everyone that runs it loves em so figure ill give it a shot.

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/ki...300ps-4-3.aspx

Just use a turbosmart wga with it.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

That sounds like a good plan! I have pics of my head in my build thread if you want to see some of their work

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

You forget I can edit and delete anything ;)
Yeah, my mistake, it's a 4G64 crank with 4G63 block.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Well now Ive read this

http://m.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=461606

Which is what i don't get my car runs fine and doesnt smoke.

I really need to do a leakdown

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

My old talon burned quite a bit of oil but never seemed to smoke that I noticed. I would say maybe double check the compression with a differ gauge just to make sure there's nothing wrong with the gauge. Then try a wet compression test and do a leak down test. The variance between the highest and lowest cylinder is quite a bit. So it still seems like something is not right. Generally you don't want more than a 20% difference between the highest and lowest cylinder

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

2.3 Stroker... Many have done a 2.4 with disastrous results. I'm in the same boat as you paying for an Evo only my motor went BOOM. Currently undergoing a 2.3 stroker with a FP Black E85

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Well thing is car runs fine normal under wot it gets 2/3 counts of knock and now started last night if i go wot it will start popping and cutting. My wideband just took a crap (only reads 20.0) and will occasionally go to 10.0 than right back to 20 stupid glowshift pos.

Will do leakdown this weekend.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Check your spark plugs and maybe just get a replacement set to go in after your leakdown test. You told me you over-revved, hitting the limiter can cause massive amounts of knock and cylinder pressure damaging a spark plug electrode (happened to me once).

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Really? does this just apply to evo's?
I've never heard this before.

I have some widebands available, I'll send a PM now.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Yeah, not sure where you're getting this info from. I built a 2.4 for my Evo with no problems at all except getting the wrong freeze plugs initially. I would've preferred to do a 2.3 but MAP did the machine work for me and didn't like the deck surface, so I started fresh and 2.4 blocks are much cheaper than Evo blocks.

Personally, I wouldn't do anything to the cylinder head except the lightest port cleanup, the factory valves, springs and retainers are plenty good for what you're talking about. That's unnecessary spending doing anything to such a good factory head.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Thought of doing a 2.4 but heard stories on how it went really bad. For a seasoned vet such as yourself yeah it could work out.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Dude what??

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

Talked with Kyle at MAP yesterday and he said he absolutely loves the 2.4s not an issue at all with them. Everything you read at times has to be taken with a grain of salt

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

I prefer the 2.3l on the Evos, I have had plenty of basket case 2.4l Evos in here for tuning.

Re: Rebuilding motor, need suggestions
 

I know when Andrew and I were researching how to build his IX we decided the 2.3L was the better route to take, especially for the IX w/MIVEC. Retaining the stock block really simplifies things.