Fiscal cliff...
 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...atters/264990/

Summary: "If your household makes a typical salary -- say, $50,000 -- you should expect to pay $2,000 more in taxes next year. If your household makes an atypical salary -- say, $500,000 -- you should expect to take a $50,000 hit. The richer you are, the bigger the hit you face as a share of income. The top 0.1% would see an average tax hike of $600,000.

What Will the Fiscal Cliff Do to the Economy?

The double whammy of spending cuts and tax changes will push the U.S. economy into a recession in the first six months of 2013, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Unemployment would rise to 9%. Real GDP would decline by about 3% in the first half of 2013. That's a certain double-dip.

Should We Avoid the Fiscal Cliff?

Nobody wants a recession. But you know what's worse than a short-term recession? A bad long-term deal. That's why some liberals are asking the president to dig in and not make a compromise with Republicans that would change Social Security and Medicare, or give up on higher tax rates on the richest 2%. "

Discuss.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

Some, Including myself, think this is a political move by both sides.
If we miss the deadline, tax cuts will expire, and major cuts will happen correct?
So all of the sudden we have tax increases for everyone, and our military budget gets slashed significantly as well as other programs.
The compromise on this is that if the tax cuts expire the GOP can say they didnt personally vote for a tax increase, thus keeping their pledge. The Dems will immediately push or a payroll tax decrease or the tax cuts for the first $250k of income leaving the rich to bear the burden of the increased taxes.
Secondly, with the cuts in taxes, the GOP and DEMs will have to put forth a bill increasing Spending on military and other such interests, if they can compromise on where the moneys should go.
Regardless something has to be done. Its not only on the presidents shoulders as the GOP and their cohorts will have you believe. The presidents budgets need to be put through congress and the senate in order for them to pass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...budget_process

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We already know that taxing the rich won't make any difference, that's just dem class warfare. They need to really scale back spending and come to an agreement with the house on keeping the Bush tax cuts in place. Now's not the time to be hammering anyone with substantial large tax increases. These huge spending bills have really put us in a pickle, it's a little late to backpeddle now.

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No, the president's budget does not need to be pushed through, he needs to compromise, which so far he has rarely done.

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This. Every rational person knows that what this country needs is compromise, not extreme views. For anything to get done both sides need to make fair concessions.

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But we do know that Republicans wont budge either.. look at Bohner, so hows compromise going to work?

I dont see an easy answer to cure our problems, besides massive cuts and a tax increase to cut down our huge deficit. Its simple economics really, and I dont get how these people running out country dont understand that.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

Republicans are ready, and calling, for compromise because they know it's the only way anything will get done for this country. Time for Obama to man-up and realize he isn't the only kid in the sandbox.

"This is an opportunity for the president to lead," Boehner said late Friday morning. "This is his moment to engage the Congress and work towards a solution that can pass both chambers."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz2BkvFkYH0

This can obviously be argued for either side, but the reality is everyone needs to come together and do what's best for this country as a whole...and yes, the rich are part of this country too just like the poor are.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

You are wrong. You cant just cut spending and think everything will be happy after that. There needs to be both spending cuts, and revenue increases in order to bridge the gap quickly. The dems have compromised on EVERYTHING, 3:1 and 10:1 and GOP wont budge. "No New Taxes" is their motto and "T.E.A.". Sorry but you cannot run government this way.
I didnt say the presidents budget needs to be pushed through, i said it needs to be PUT through the congress and senate. As in, like he has already done, president makes budget in the beginning of the year, it gets handed to congress, they make changes and vote it, then it goes to the senate, they vote and make changes and voila we have a budget.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

But republicans arent willing compromise either. lol

The speaker was likewise holding firm to his demand that tax rates not go up, because many of those affected are small business owners. "Raising tax rates will slow down our ability to create the jobs that everyone says they want," Boehner said.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

BTW, what do you think we should do about the $300 BILLION in oil subsidies we give to Exxon? And what about the land they are sitting on that the Gov Gave them to drill for oil that they did not start drilling on? These are things that can be fixed, these are things that can aid in cutting the deficit.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

I think you need to read this to learn a bit more about "subsidies".

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/...subsidies.html

Try again please.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

You mean to tell me Tom's numbers aren't accurate? Say it isn't so! Interesting topic and one I haven't looked in to a ton. Time to do some reading.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

I'm no expert, but agree that compromise is the best way. Compromise on both sides. Little less spending here, little more taxes there, to me it all seems necessary. We can't keep going the way we've been going.

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I dont know much about all these big words haha but why hasn't the thought of trying the laffer curve ever come up.

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They need to pull their heads out of their asses and run the country like a business. You cant have a business spending FAR more than they take in every single yr. The math just dosnt add up for them to stay floating. I'm not taking sides here, they both need to come to the table and realize what is going on. Cut their paychecks and start working for US not against us. I really dont care if they tax more, we need to be taxed more to pay for the expenses we have racked up. No different than putting money on a credit card, the time has come to pay it off and no one is willing to suck it up and start making payments.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...d-99-0-senate/

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

...exactly why we need a successful business man as President.

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Still waiting on my free obamaphone suckas go out and make some money so I can get my handouts

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Screw the Obama phone, I am thinking about trying to transfer out of Country.

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lol really? Name one country that you'd move to that is really better off? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/bu...r-nations.html

Also gun laws in those countries are much more strict. We have it good here in the US, we just need to fix our shit.

Heres a good article on the fiscal cliff. http://www.schiffradio.com/b/Extend-...299248664.html

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

They will not fix it, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO FIX IT. They want to break this county from the inside out.

Do some real research and you'll find out for your self.

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Definite possibility, depending on what Obama is attempting to turn us into.

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Hahaha okay tin foil hat vicious! Why not post some actual info on why they dont want to fix it, rather than just ranting about it.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

I think there's definitely some truth to that, but to see it, you have to look more into his idealogy and of those that raised and mentored him rather than what he says in speeches. You're not going to see it on the front page of huffpo.

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Damn, i thought my tinfoil hat was strong, but the president getting a second term really got vicious bonkers. "They want it to go broke and Break it from the inside out". How the fuck would that benefit ANYONE? You are a fool vicious, kracka and goat blower, and all of this was said before... in 2008.
I laugh at the stock market going down or businesses laying off employees and blaming it on obama getting elected. First off the stocks are going down because of the original topic of this thread and the GOP stonewalling efforts to get cuts and taxes, and companies laying off employees is likely due to them doing bad anyways and the cuts were already going to happen. Survival of the fittest business.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

Purpose of breaking country down? lol Do not understand.

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It's really not that far-fetched when you look at history books from around the globe. Make people so desperate they go along with anything just to get a crumb thrown their way...

Obviously the chances of the US falling or faltering is extremely low since the world's economy depends on ours, but then again, look at Greece. Throughout history powerful governments can, and have, failed or fallen.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

Again, what would be the purpose, or reason that the president or political party in power would want the gov to fail? Obama definitely doesn't want this to happen, and has made no such strides to ensure this does happen.

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Lol a bit far fetched for sure.. yes governments and countries of power have failed but usually at the whim of another country that takes them over. Wars lost, etc.

Not sure why Obama would purposefully take down our economy... please state why this would happen?

I know there are theories about new world order, and that all makes a little more sense. Please explain your tinfoil theories and support them.. dont just say research it, go look it up, etc. I want to see what you guys are reading... No exampled have been given at all.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

This.

for a population to accept socialism you must first take everything away from them, then promise to give some of it back. Tax the rich, give to the poor, kill small business, big government, etc.

Not saying it's going to happen, just saying there's a slight possibility of it coming to fruition with some of Obama's ideologies and the fact he isn't up for reelection again, he now has nothing to lose. The first four years was only laying the groundwork for what we'll see over the next four.

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Okay so please list how we get out of this mess? How do we get rid of the deficit without raising some form or taxes?

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We're fucked, but the economy needs to be spurred in order to avoid things getting much worse. A tanking stock market is definitely what we did not need, but I (and many others) predicted it would happen if Obama won. There were a lot of people betting big that Romney would win it and the market would jump up, unfortunately, the opposite happened. Corn, after holding steady for a bit, fell, which can be good and bad depending on how you look at it. Oil has been volatile, but overall held steady (this surprised me a bit, but lack of demand does account for this). Businesses need to feel confident enough to start releasing cash stocks for investment, hiring, growth, etc. This will not happen with potential tax increases on the horizon though so in the meantime cash reserves will be held tight. Obama claims he is a champion of small business, now it's time for him to live up to his words and convince the free market that he actually is.

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As most of you know, I am not a fan of Obama, but I have to post up.

There are alot of comments about Obama's attitude and idealogy... Far fetched arguments in my opinion.

Without any links to any actual information, you guys are just as guilty as when the other side runs off with their asinine comments and thoughts.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

There's more to life and truth than links on the internet; people are allowed their personal opinions and theories.

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I completely agree with you, one hundred percent.

So next time someone on the other side of the view that you have posts something without actual information behind it, please remember your comment above.

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Lol seriously, Pete is right on. We post real info, and you guys just post some far fetched opinions..

Regardless of who would have won the election, this fiscal cliff would still be here, and thats why the stock market fell.

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I think we all listened to plenty leading up to the elections.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

We all have our opinions, but the stock market did not fall the day after the election (it actually began during overnight trading hours) because of the fiscal cliff. Will is cause a decline in the market? Yes. Did it cause the immediate drop following the election results? No.

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Real info? The fact is it's all one person's opinion or another. Said reporter can have one opinion just the same as some random guy can. Does typing it on the internet make it any more factual? What people view as truth are articles that they personally agree with. It's human nature, we align ourselves with like-minded individuals. That's why one news outlet can be gospel to one person but skewed lies to another. I think we're all smart enough here to understand that the media isn't always accurate and is almost always skewed for one purpose or another. This can be especially dangerous when a reporter is writing on a topic they only have a brief understanding of (New York Times is notorious for this, even the Wall Street Journal now and again). We've all seen how the talking heads can take a topic and skew it to oblivion.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

Everything has a skew and bias, but actual numbers state facts. Unless those numbers are somehow manipulated. Economics doesnt vary on opinion, it is what it is.

Anyway, I guess well just keep arguing in this thread about stuff not even having to do with how to fix issues associated with the fiscal cliff.

Re: Fiscal cliff...
 

Look at it like this:

Think of our Constitutionally Regulated Government as a big guard dog (bare with me on this, lol). Let's say that dog is guarding a lot of money and people. And that guard dog has to keep getting bigger and bigger to be able to do what it does because it's area of responsibility keeps getting larger (although that was not supposed to be that way). Now let's say you're on the outside of the fence wanting to get in and rob the place and take advantage of those people that guard dog is protecting. As part of your plan you've been able to get your crooked friends working on the inside and all that stands in the way is that Constitutional Government guard dog. But the dog can't be killed because it packs a killer bite (our military, our armed population and our constitution). So how do you kill the dog off? You keep making it grow bigger while having it carry the people it's supposed to be protecting (who are also supposed to be its providers), at the same time cutting off its food supply (revenue from income taxes). Eventually the dog gets weakened from its food supply getting out of balance with its needs. Keep pushing it harder, and harder until it dies. And once we go over that fiscal cliff all bets are off, we will move into Marshall Law with the annointed one in charge. And as our military get more weakened along the way, who's gonna protect you. And there lies what might just be the end game.

So the simple answer is "jobs", because that's where federal income taxes come from. More people paying into the system while at the same time more people come off government expenditures. And oddly enough, we didn't elect the best man for creating them. So we are starving the over grown government of the revenue it needs to survive.

I'll post some links when I get home from work. And I'm sure there will be people in this thread who will burry their heads back in the sand. But you've got to stop looking at the little pieces and start looking at the big picture. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that something is wrong with what's going on.

Funny how the dems kept using the "pushing grandma over the cliff" slogan, because now it looks like all of us are going over the cliff with her.