Can we put this in our cars? what is the octane rating? anybody know anything about this shit? BTW its 85% ethenol gas

octane rating 109ish, no our cars aren't designed to burn this shit, lightening gsx wants to have his car running on it, it was discussed elsewhere on this board.
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or just pm eric (lightening gsx).

Yeah, it needs to be ran at about a 10:1 A/F ratio.You'll need to swap any rubber seals that come in contact with it, over to Teflon or similar.It will corrode anything made from aluminum, so you may need to swap fuel lines, fuel rail, etc(I'm not sure what everything is made of yet).And finally E85 will conduct electricity(gas does not), so you'd need to shield/ground the fuel pump.The OEMs put a flame arrestor in the filler neck, which would probably be a good thing for us also.Its not as difficult as it sounds, I'll let people know once I figure everything out.

Oh yeah, you'll end up with about 20%-30% less fuel economy and the octane rating is between 95 and 105(depending on season and area, I keep meaning to stop by an E85 pump and check the octane rating around here)

So basically it is cheaper just to run race-gas rather than converting everything over then loosing fuel economy.

No not really, E85 is alot cheaper, even cheaper than 87 octane unleaded.And it comes from Minnesota farmers, not some foreign oil cartel.

Here's an interesting thread on Tuners about using ethanol for some reference: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread...ghlight=Ethanol

E85 is normally $.40 cheaper than 92. If you put in 12 gallons that is about $5.00 a fill up. It wouldn't take too long to pay itself off. Not to mention you could run 28 - 30 psi EVERY DAY!!

Hell Yeah!!! :banana: :banana:

Ahhh, yes! The battle between me an MNGSX! I had to learn him a little :D Too bad I wasn't able to stay involved in the thread. There are some more things that we were still arguing about. There are some good facts in there though (don't believe all of his though).

Ahhh, yes! The battle between me an MNGSX! I had to learn him a little :D Too bad I wasn't able to stay involved in the thread. There are some more things that we were still arguing about. There are some good facts in there though (don't believe all of his though). [/b][/quote]
I thought you might like that. ;)

Although you must remember you will be losing about 20-30% of your fuel economy so in effect it is not truely $5 cheaper/tank if you take in to account the fact you will have to refuel more often. My old roomate has an '00 Ford Ranger than can run on either regular gasoline or E85, and after using both for extended periods of time he found it was cheaper just to run the regular 87-octane gasoline. One more thing, I am sick of having to bail out the MN farmers. If they can't survive they should just go out of business like would happen in any other industry. We already help them out enough with the price-floor put in place for milk. That stuff is over $4/gal now at Cub last time I checked. Whenever possibly I liked to get the nonoxygenated fuel for my Talon, it seemed to run better and I did get a few extra MPG.

When you're running 92 octane to begin with, E85 will be alot more economical and have other benefits as well.I actually think it would be possible to get nearly the same fuel ecomony with a turbo DSM and E85.I'll find out soon enough.

Although you must remember you will be losing about 20-30% of your fuel economy so in effect it is not truely $5 cheaper/tank if you take in to account the fact you will have to refuel more often. My old roomate has an '00 Ford Ranger than can run on either regular gasoline or E85, and after using both for extended periods of time he found it was cheaper just to run the regular 87-octane gasoline. One more thing, I am sick of having to bail out the MN farmers. If they can't survive they should just go out of business like would happen in any other industry. We already help them out enough with the price-floor put in place for milk. That stuff is over $4/gal now at Cub last time I checked. Whenever possibly I liked to get the nonoxygenated fuel for my Talon, it seemed to run better and I did get a few extra MPG. [/b][/quote]
You may want to rethink your comment which is bashing those who the entire Minnesota economy is built around.

You may want to rethink your comment which is bashing those who the entire Minnesota economy is built around. [/b][/quote]
Ditto - Dont piss in the pool you swim in, its not healthy.

Have you ever visited a dairy farm? Have you ever talked to a farmer about anything at all related to their business? If you knew how close every privately owned farm is to going under you'd understand.

There is an ethanol plant just east of Owatonna. Local farmers were given huge contracts to sell their corn to the plant, and as a result they're able to buy more land, plant more crops and buy bigger and better equipment to get the job done. On top of it, they get a better way of life and more security while we get cheaper and cleaner burning fuel.

Yeah, my family's farm went under, so the fuck what? Seriously, if you can't hack it in the business then you shouldn't be in it. Nobody in my family pissed and moaned; they realized their time was up, sold most of the equipment and most the land. And did I mention I am a fag? The few remaining fields we own are either being rented out or are on the idle-land revitilization program.

Don't talk about "cleaner burning" either, 90% of the cars on this board are emissions illegal.

About the price...I regularly paid the extra $.10/gal to get the nonoxygenated gasoline if the station I was at offered it and generally noted a slight increase in performance and always a few extra MPG.

Ethanol is cleaner burning than gasoline last I knew. Obviously you can't expect to just dump it into any car and see immediate results... Hence why Eric is working on converting to E85.

Concerning the price of milk: There will always be a demand, and people will pay nearly anything for it. If you ask me it's not all that rediculous of a price. I think I paid less than $6 at Cub for two gallons.

The oxygenated gas is E5(5% ethanol) I believe, older vehicles aren't really programmed to run on it.If you have a vehicle equipped to run any combo of ethanol, the upsides outway the downsides by far.

And you can't honestly tell me you'd rather give your money to a foreigner, over an american farmer, could you?

All gas (unless stated as nonoxygenated) is 10% ethanol in MN. They actually made it a law a year or 2 ago. I looked it up a month or 2 ago. That is year round too.

I'd rather get what I pay for. If I want corn I go to the grocery store; if I want gas I go to the gas station. If the farmers made quality gasoline I would purchase it from them rather than from overseas, but they don't, they grow vegatables.

I'd rather get what I pay for. If I want corn I go to the grocery store; if I want gas I go to the gas station. If the farmers made quality gasoline I would purchase it from them rather than from overseas, but they don't, they grow vegatables. [/b][/quote]
Sorry, but ethanol is a quality fuel, a by-product of corn. Ethanol plants aren't like meth labs... A refined product compared to a crude product.

No need for apologies my friend. Just so you know, gallon to gallon gasoline makes more power; that is why you see a reduction in fuel economy with E85 and the 10% stuff. I really don't care what you guys buy though, the less gasoline that is purchased the cheaper it will become for me. Aslong as we are all happy with the choices we make I see no problems what so ever.

No doubt you see a reduction in fuel economy because your car isn't equipped to run on ethanol. Like Eric has said before, you need to run an A/F ratio that is completely off the board when compared to what is good for gasoline.

Yeah, you must mix a lot richer to get equivalant power.

If most of our oil comes from canada, then why are you guys complaining about the foriegner (middle east) factor of receiving oil? If only 15% of our oil comes from the middle east then I dont care about who Im paying to get oil.

And I really dont see any benefit besides the polution factor with E85. Sure its better for the environment but if you have to put more in to go the same distance is it really?? Maybe but not by much. If it was much cheaper than regular gas sure Id go for it if my car could take it. BUT my car doesnt take it and its about .20 cents cheaper not .40 compared to regular.

Oil, and other fossil fuels, aren't going to be around forever. Ethanol comes from corn, and corn is a replenishable resource, and can be done so at a fairly rapid rate given the proper climate.

How about the ability to run 26psi daily on a fuel that costs about the same as 87 octane?

You guys just don't get it.Taking a small reduction in fuel economy for the ability to run much more boost and much lower intake temps, making much more knock free power, polluting much less and supporting the American economy(not Canada, Middle East, or any other foreign country) while paying less than 87 octane, sounds like a hell of a deal to me.

That sums it up nicely. I don't see a valid argument to that only the standard issue, I like my way and don't want to change mentality. At least for a mostly street driven car, E85 makes perfect sense and is not very difficult to convert to. The benefits are there and the cost does end up being less in the end after all the efficiency issues are gone through. I will be converting the talamino to it but the blue one is going to be on race only as that is the only time it will be driven.

As with everything else, everyone will retain their opinions, but if you have yet to form one, this is a very valid option for fuel for boosted cars.

so all of the gaskets and fuel pump stuff would need to be converted... i supose all -an stuff would work great?

And i guess 26psi daily driven with no KNOCK is would be very nice!!!
-E

Actually the more data I read on E85, the more its becoming apparent that on a turbo vehicle, you can easily INCREASE fuel economy, while increasing power output as well.

Would you care to elaborate on increasing the fuel economy Eric? I have done a lot of research on this too, but I haven't seen anything to support that, yet.

Check the papers/reports on the Ethanol Vehicle Challenge(EVC).There were a few over the years, they consisted of around 14 university teams.Nearly all the teams suceeded in increasing power output, and up to 3/4 of them succeeded in increasing MPG as well(via forced induction), one team showed a 20% increase in economy, while still showing an increase in power.They go over the technical aspects pretty well also.

There are a few SAE papers on the subject that contain real world info/results also, not free though.

Heres a good one
http://www.westbioenergy.org/reports/55032.../55032final.htm

Would this ever be a practical upgrade? Or are you just looking in to it out of interest?

Re: E85
 

Check out this paper, a few years old but definitely interesting: http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/eth...ive/index.html

Re: E85
 

Holy OLD ASS THREAD BATMAN.

Re: E85
 

Damn if you thought this one was old, you missed the "Sick" thread I brought back from December of 2003.

Re: E85
 

maybe old, but I'm still curious if Lightening has had any more progress with this. Very interesting.