Crankcase ventilation
 

Hey guys,

I am having an issue with my car that I think is the result of insufficient crankcase ventilation (it's a 2.4L with a FP GT3582R).

My setup is as pictured:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...3/IMG_6921.jpg

Basically it's just 2 lines, one from the PCV and one from the valve cover to a vented catch can. I'm getting hardly any blow by (driven it 600 miles and only got a teaspoon in the can) but have a lot of pressure in the crank case.

I had to put a spring on my dipstick to prevent it from shooting out (a common issue, I know) and now oil is coming out of the oil fill cap, dripping onto the valve cover and eventually burning off. The result is that I'm burning a noticeable amount of oil from there and not only does it smell, but it worries me that I will run it low (a long shot, I know).

Could my issue be insufficient ventilation? Would -10AN to a catch can be beneficial? What have you all done on a setup like mine? I'm flowing 58lb/min at WOT right now.

I'm very green to DSMs but have a little understanding when it comes to PCV systems.

Thanks.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

I should mention: although I don't have the normal symptoms (overheating, water in the oil, loss of water, smoke, etc.) I have a gut feeling that my HG is bad (I have had a rubber cap blow off of my lower tstat housing twice but once was because it was dry rotted and the other was because it was a 2 piece cap so it's tough to say why it happened). Can this cause excessive pressure? Compression is 165 across the board cold, 150 warm on all 4.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Set it up like stock; breather to the intake pipe and PCV to the intake manifold.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

If that's the answer then why does everyone "over complicate" things and go with the setup I have (albeit usually a "bigger" system overall)? I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just want to know the WHY. :)

BTW my plugs looked good so I don't *think* excessive blow-by is the culprit either.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Everyone thinks they can out-engineer the engineers. From my experience, catch-cans seem to create more problems than they solve. Setting it up like stock always puts a suction on either the crankcase vent or PCV vent which is better than just allowing excessive pressure build up to escape on it's own. If that solution doesn't work, then do the same, only with larger lines. Having a little oil vapor/mist in your intake charge is actually a good thing since it helps keep the BOV and wastegate actuator internals lubricated.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

^interesting take, i may have to try this out myself

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

I had the same issue until I went to a -10an setup, cured my problem of shooting the dipstick out.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7345872_n.jpg

You drive a heavily modified dsm with a 2.4 and a gt35 that you plan on daily driving. A heavily modified dsm can make for a good daily, BUT you need to plan on checking things over a lot more often (like your oil level) than you would on a stock civic for example.

I had to keep an eye on my catch can and empty it every once in a while. I also didn't have any baffles in my valve cover either so that probably helped fill the catch can up even faster.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Pick up a JCS automation/calan catch can.
Use 2 -10AN lines from VC to can then a single -10 or -12AN to intake, his cans will not leave anything in your intake, I have one and love it.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

This subject has been beaten to death here a few times. Check out some of the older threads for insight.

FWIW, I agree with the idea of keeping the stock pathway. Although I would consider putting sealed catchcan's in line with them, as well as consider increasing the line size of the one going to the inlet pipe.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

for a stock-ish car, run the stock setup.

if your running 400+whp, then its time to create some bigger ports and allow the motor to breathe.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

What happened to Kracka vents?

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

It you have normal ARP head studs and your making decent power at all, then the head is probably lifting.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

MAP sells them.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

If you want suction in your crankcase, do a slash cut in your exhaust, with a check valve to keep exhaust surges from pushing back into your crankcase. Slash cuts will actually increase in vacuum as boost/load increases, as opposed to intake manifold which will close the PCV valve and give you none. The intake tube port has a similar effect (though not as much) but also will spray discharge into your intake.

You don't need crankcase vapors to lubricate your wastegate actuator and BOV - a lot of the time your crankcase discharges are steamy (water vapor) nasty fluid anyway. Plus your turbo willl almost always spray a finite amount of oil there anyway.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

this is mostly why i chose to vent my catch can rather than route it back into the intake pipe. not much vacuum is created anyways. Big thread on DSMtuners and EvoM about this.

What was in my catch can (mostly water):
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s...m/IMG_4635.jpg

(this was my testing valve cover) I did 2 large NTP ports on the end, used a tap, some $2 NTP fittings, and routed them to my catch can. I used to get some blow by smoke and now i get none.
http://blog.365racing.net/wp-content...4/IMG_4750.jpg
http://blog.365racing.net/wp-content...4/IMG_4738.jpg

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

If you use a real catch can, you will have no issues with anything getting back into the intake.

David, search dsmtuners for calan and his catch can and I promise you will be happy with the results. Hell I'm buying another one soon.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

I have both the PCV and vent open. No catch can, not hooked up to anything, just sitting there. I've had no issue with dipstick blowing out and I don't get any oil out of either vent. Maybe a drop or two after a while. I realize it's not the right way to do it but it hasn't been an issue at all.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

A couple years ago I was interested in this idea. It appeared to gain popularity the Civic and Supra crowd a while back and did net some gains on the dyno. I think I might finally give this a try since my DSM is my experimental tech donkey.

I am thinking 2x -8 fittings and lines within an inline baffle box system, then 2 beefy check valves into opposing slash cut tubes. IIRC, the main issue people were having at the time were the valves getting clogged with coked oil. I am thinking the baffle box could prevent this if done correctly.

Paul, do you have any experience with this in a quasi-race environment?

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Can you explain this more? Hasn't that air been metered?

Yeah, I have a slash cut on the chumpcar. This weekend will be the first time it will be run in a race. We had an awful problem with a rapid filling catch can last year, I even posted on here about it, and I got little or no help. I'm much more confident in our new setup, it also has a drainback to go back into the block so we don't have to waste time at pit stops draining it. On a street car draining it is acceptable, on a race car where you need to have ~4 minute pit stops, you want as little to do as possible.

I'll let you know how it goes! In theory it should be ok, but I have some concerns about it, namely the hose I have connected to the slash cut getting too hot.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

You're putting it back into the block? Interested to hear how that works as everything I've ever drained out of my catch can doesn't look like anything I'd want back in my motor.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Let us know how it goes with the chumpcar.

I believe summit sells a kit for cheap if something happens to that hose.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

It comes out of your crankcase.... And our car goes approximately 750 miles between oil changes. If that.

Edit, also i think with a daily driver you get a lot of condensation because the motor gets a lot of start/stops and cooling in between. On the race car everything in the catch can was basically pure oil, because it is run for 7/14/24/25 hours at a time... so very little water actually ends up in it.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Yes it comes out of your crankcase, flying out of your crankcase as small airborne particals that have been mixed in with a lot of air and combustion gasses. Then it settles back down into your catchcan in an altered form as a substance that now looks more like baby barf than motor oil.

I'm no expert though, just my limited point of view and interested to see how that works out for you guys. Best of luck to ya!

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

For the record, I think Shane was right: I lifted the head.

I ordered L19s, a new PermaTorque HG and associated parts today.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

right, but like i said, when you've been running for hours in a race, the stuff that comes out of a catch can is pretty much just oil. At least on our car it is. That stuff is going to be mixed up with oil anyway, as it blends with sloshed up oil in your crankcase.

And since we were filling our quart catch can with oil every 2 hour stint, we'd also come in and have to top off the oil every time. Another step saved, and another safety measure to ensure we don't run it too low on oil.

Lots of people do drainbacks into the block, this isn't a new or revolutionary idea. Heck, the stock setup on our honda is essentially a baffle box with drainback into the block. That is what gave me the idea to do it this way.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic, but your original issue did sound like a headgasket problem anyway.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Yeah, there's a huge difference between a daily driver and a race car in this respect. I'd drain it back into the block for racing as well, you shouldn't get any condensation in there.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Some of the catch cans for Subaru's have coolant running through them to keep the condensation from happening due to the drastic temp change of inside the motor vs outside.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Interesting, cool well hopefully that works out for you then. Good to know if I ever have a dedicated race car. My race car experience is limited so I can only speak from a street car point of view.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

i've drained my catch can at the event right after a few laps. I still would not want to put that stuff back into my motor. I dont mind adding some fresh oil every 20 minutes. My car see's 3-4 laps at a crack, and is not street driven.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

I've read about a lot of the big HP Honda guys draining the catch can back into the motor without any real problems. I've also remember reading about some dsm guys draining it back into the motor through the balance shaft check hole.

I wonder if you put some sort of easy to clean fliter before it drained back into the block if it wouldn't be so bad.

Re: Crankcase ventilation
 

Catch can worked phenomenally. Paul, if you want more details on how I did it, let me know.