OK well this car had this problem awhile back, but it went away for awhile. Now it's back and I'd really like to get it fixed before I come home. Basically when I give it a good amount of gas, it just has no power. If I boost over like 5 psi in 1st and 2nd, it just feels like a total slug. Geo Metros could beat me in a race as of right now. If I stay under 5, then it pulls like it normally would at that throttle level. But give her a lil more and she all a sudden just feels like there is a total loss of power. In 3rd through 5th, it'll do the same but not until like over 10psi. Under 10 and she'll feel normal. I just got done building a lil boost leak tester like VFAQ shows where u attach it to the inlet of your turbo. I've never done a boost leak test but hopefully tomorrow I'll be doing that test to see if there's a leak anywhere. BUT, I mean if I punch it, it'll still spool up to like 15 or whatever, so that's what's kinda strange in my mind. I've been looking up old threads on tuners, and read one about a guy who seemed to have very similar problems to me and it was a bad fuel filter that was the culprit on his car. I'm thinkin I'll put a new one of those in cuz a new fuel filter couldn't hurt even if it's not the culprit. Anyone have suggestions on a decent brand fuel filter? Also if you have suggestions on the best way to do the boost leak test since i've never done one, please let me know. Or if anyone has any comments on what else might bemy problem then please share your thoughts.

Also should i have open the throttle plate while doing this too or keep it closed? I'm guessin open it so that way u can see if your intake mani is leakin, but just thought i'd ask

What are your mods? Sounds like a boost leak to me, either that or your car is knocking really bad and it is pulling tons of timing.

CRAIG

mods are filter, MBC, 1g crushed BOV, UIC pipe, 2.5" TB elbow, Accel wires, arp headstuds, boost and egt gauges, emissions removed, and i think that's about it. Even if my car was pulling as much timing as it could, I don't see it making it this slow. It's hard to explain what it feels like. It feels like all a sudden if it boosts over those limits i said earlier, the engine will just start like missing and then catching on and off sorta. ALSO, like let say im at part throttle holding it at about 10 psi in 3rd. All a sudden when it starts sorta missing, the boost will raise up. Man it's early and I'm prolly making no sense. Maybe I'll put my new lil digital camera to use and make a quick lil video and that might help a little.

My previous motor was completely shot so I decided to stop changing the oil on it since it was burning it so fast. This was a mistake, the filter was filthy and so was the oil just as soon as I added it. This made unbelievable amounts of lifter tick and pulled the timing way back. Believe me, I couldnt keep up with traffic at WOT when this happened. Think about the last time you changed the oil. If its been a while, maybe dump half a can of seafoam in the motor, drive a couple blocks, and change the oil.

The oil has been changed quit a bit since I've gotten it due to me working on the engine and losing oil and having to replenish the oil with new stuff. I'll go ahead and put a new filter on but I'm pretty sure this filter only has maybe 1000 miles on it. But its only like 3 bux or so for a new one so I'll throw a new one on. Also where can I get the seafoam stuff and what exactly is it called? I could give it a try, im open to do anything pretty much

Ill just put this out there cuz it sounds like a problem i had with my Grand Marquis. I know its not even close to the same car but the symptoms sound the same. I would check the MAS, im pretty sure your car would have one(i dont know a whole lot about dsms yet). But that was the problem on my grandmarquis. It was tellin my engine to use less gas than it needed or something. Didnt really get into details cuz its a ford and i dont really care!

do you have a logger to make sure its not knocking? my car does something similar to yours. sometimes during normal driving it will pick up 43 knock counts. when it happens the timing get pulled to nothing and the engine looses almost all power. when this happens the boost almost instantly goes up to 10psi because of the low timing.

i don't have a logger. After work today I'm going to go get me some of that Seafoam stuff or whatever it was, drive around to the parts store and get a new fuel filter, install that, clean out my injectors, and put my new throttle body on. After all that is done, if it still doesn't work, i will try and throw my buddies MAS on my car and see if that helps any. I'm not 100% sure his is totally great because his car isn't running perfect at the moment either, but I think its his turbo, but we aren't sure yet. Is there a way I can test the MAS? Also if I still have time left, I'll see if I can get my hands on a timing light and check my timing that way. Maybe my CAS is off or sumthin I dunno.

ok well all i was able to get done today was putting on my new throttle body. And now my idle surge is finally gone, i have a normal idling car. And my absense of power is now... absent. Feels like a million bucks. I'm wondering though, that could mean that it was leaking at the Throttle body before. But something i was wondering was, let's say it was the timing being pulled that was the problem. Could me unhooking the battery for like an hour today have possibly reset something in the computer so right now it's running great because it has been reset and hasn't been driven enough for the computer to realise somethings wrong and so it's not pulling timing yet, but could later on? I hope that made sense to someone out there, I'm not the best at wording things always. Anyways, I'm still putting in the new fuel filter tomorrow because it can't hurt, and prolly going to clean out the injectors a bit. Thanx for the help everyone. But my buddies laser is having issues so look out for the thread on that!

anyone know what the dsm's use for a throttle position sensor? a n/a car with a dead spot in the tps feels just like a turboed car that has a boost leak. just an idea to consider.

ok i just got back from giving my car a half hour test drive. All though it does have much more power than it did before, it still isn't 100% up to par. if i gun it at a low rpm in say 2nd, then through all of 2nd it won't have a lot of power. But if i hit it when im at like 3500rpm, it'll go pretty nicely. 1st feels great from a stop, but 2nd is really slugish if you punch it from like 2k rpm. It'll be slow throughout the entire gear. I'm guess timing is somehow being pulled. I dunno, I have to go to bed. Thanx again for the help everyone is giving.

This seems to be on par with what my lifter tick was like. Before it got really bad I could get out of the throttle and jump back in it at mid rpm and there would be more power there.

cool, so ill do that seafoam thing you did. But what exactly am i looking for? Like can I get it at autozone? What exactly is it called? I don't wanna get the wrong stuff. thanx

Its in a red and white metal can. Its called "Seafoam" and the counter guys ought to know exactly what you're talking about. Put it directly in the oil, I always use a lot since it's only going to be run in there for about a minute or two. Its thin stuff, like water, so I cant vouch for it being safe to use, but it works wonders on lifter tick.

*edit* I hear that ATF also works as a detergent for the motor/lifters. Its thicker and probably safer, but I'm not sure how much of that you're supposed to use or for how long.

i will try that after work. I gotta lot of crap to do after work, hopefully i can get this done too. thanx

ok im really getting frustrated here. Well my new throttle body fixed my idle surge. But today it's back. And now this power lacking issue is worse than ever. I wasn't able to do jack to the car today because I worked late and we had to clean up around the room. But I did let my buddy borrow my car. He said he didn't think it was runnin too hot. So I took her for a quick spin. I drove to Autozone real quick on my lil test drive to pick up that seafoam stuff, but they were closed. So I drove back home. Well on this drive that took about 25 minutes, I backfired 3 times (twice shifting into 4th, once shifting into 3rd). So that's a new lil symptom. Also when i punch it I had the windows down, and to me it really sounds like there is a boost leak. As the boost rises, you will hear the nice whistle, but then you'll here a more wooshing sound, like maybe the air(and it sounds like a lot of air, not just a lil whistling leak, but a whoosing kinda sound) is escaping from somewhere. But during the trip, there were maybe 2 times where i did a 3rd gear pull from like 3k rpm, and it pulled ok all the way to 6k where i shut her down. So that seems real weird, because if it were a leak, wouldn't it leak all the time? I don't know, this is driving me off the wall. I'm pissed cuz my time got ate up by work so I didn't get to work on it. I wanna do the seafoam thing cuz that'll take no time, and if it doesn't fix it, then atleast that's one less thing it can't be. hopefully tommorrow I'll get to do that seafoam thing, and also get a boost leak test done.

Still sounds like something is tripping your knock sensor and pulling all timing. The whooshing air noise is pretty normal for that too. From all of your descriptions I would be pretty surprised if it were a boost leak.

ok i took the rest of the day off pretty much. Now between shifts, the car bogs down really low, stalling sometimes. One thing I guess that totally didn't even come to mind was the fact that the BOV is venting. I bought it like this, and don't have a recirc hose. I'm gunna run to a parts store and see if i can't get some sort of flex hose that i can use as a recirc hose. Also i am starting to think that it is the timing being thrown off by something. The engine doesn't make any actual knock sounds. I don't have lifter tick. The idle is all jacked up now for some reason. Idle surge will be there, then it'll be gone, then back. I dunno. So many problems at once it seems, and right before I'm going home, go figure.

Get that hose on the BOV, ground your ISC and adjust your BISS so the idle sits at 750 rpm, do a boost-leak check, and if possible hook up a datalogger to see if the ECU is seeing knock.

Same method as the Sea Foam. Drive or rev the car just enough to get it circulated. Don't put the car under heavy load whatsoever. Some MCCC might help you out too, search around on the VFAQ and Talk/tuners and you'll get pleny of info on that stuff.

I don't have a datalogger first off. Second off, Even when i ground that stupid plug in the engine bay and the one pin inside the car (i got this info off vfaq), idle surge is still there. It will not go away. Except every now and then when it feels like it or if I turn on the A/C. So I can't adjust the idle to 750 because its sitting there surging between like 1000-1300ish. Later today when i bring the car into our hobby shop on base, i am gunna hook up the lil boost leak tester i made and do that check. Also when i go pic up the recirc hose here in a bit, ill try to get some of that seafoam shit and try that out too.

When it is idling put your hand over the BOV and see if the idle surge goes away.

OK they didn't have seafoam, but instead they gave me this GUNK engine cleaner stuff that is supposed to do the same thing so imma give that a shot. Just add it into your oil, run it for like 5 minutes, then drain it out. Mitsubishi is no longer here, it changed to suzuki and honda. I'm guessing because of that whole Diamler Chrystler givin em the boot thing, so it looks like they are going outta business from what i can tell. So I couldn't pick up a mitsu filter, just have to use a fram or sumthin i guess. I gotta fuel filter. So I'll be changing the oil and using that engine cleaner stuff, changing the fuel filter, I'm going to double check the ISC and make sure it gets good readings, imma clean out the injectors a lil, and use this hose i bought from pepboys as a recirc hose. I'll see what happens from there.

ahh i didn't see that last post there by you. I'll try that too before i put the recirc hose on.

OK well I did a bunch today. I put that engine flush shit in, idled her for about 5 minutes. changed out the oil and filter. changed out the fuel filter. cleaned the injectors, put a recirc hose on, changed out the rear diff fluid to redline, and cleaned the crap outta the engine area and underneath. Now she's running fabulous, except idle surge is still intermitent. But I can deal with that, im happy that she's running how she is right now. Thanx for all the help!

well i ohm checked the ISC again just to see if it had a bad reading on any of the coils because the idle surge is still intermitent. But that checked good. Kinda confused on this problem. But otherwise I have been driving her around quit a bit just to see if any of the other problems resurface. But she's besides that idle surge, she runs like a charm and has a compression of 145,145,140,150 from left to right.!!!

Well, make sure all your vaccum hoses are connect, and also, check the timing. My buddy's Probe GT did the exact same thing, and it turned out that it was the combination of both.

well the problem is back sorta. Before I had no power all the time, now its mainly just in 1st gear. It ran great the last few days, but now if i floor it in first, the engine sounds like its pumpin out power, but I just don't move very fast. But if I let off a little, and then repunch it, it'll go like its supposed to. Kinda wierd, its like something is making my car pull timing. I'm gunna just redo the whole timing belt here one of these days just to make sure last tim i did it i didn't put it a tooth off or sumthin. But if i put it a tooth off, then wouldn't it always be slow, not just off and on. It's like if i punch it when im at a low rpm, that's when it won't go so fast, but if im at like 4500 and i punch it, most the time it'll take off just fine. But I dunno, I'm gunna try to just redo the timing belt just cuz why not. Also, I read on this site how to use a timing light on our cars, and that you can adjust the timing with the CAS. So if my CAS is a lil off, could that be causing this and i just need to readjust it? Also that site wasn't perfectly clear where im looking if i use a timing light. It says to look through the top of the engine bay down to im guessing the crank pulley. and then from there you should see the timing mark meeting this lil meter thing at like 5 or sumthin. Well when i look through the top of my engine bay, and can't barely even see the crank pulley, or this lil meter measure thingy where its supposed to be at 5. anyone else done this that could enlighten me?..

ps, the name of the site i got the timing light info off is www.plymouthlaser.com

Why dont you pull the cam cover off and use a extension to turn the engine over manualy and see if the marks are aligned on the cams?

The extension will go into the crank pully.. theres a whole on the plastic fender wall on the driverside front wheel well.

my cam cover and that plastic fender piece are both off already so i can do that easy. That's what i planned on doing. Checking all the marks to make sure they are good, and if they aren't, then take off the belt and redo it. BUT, if it is good, I'd like to use a timing light to see if the mark is set at the 5 degree mark with the engine running, but i really don't fully understand this timing light thing. I don't see what exactly he's shining the light on in his lil vfaq thing.

have you checked the MAS? the symptoms sound exactly like the problem i had with my car and it was the MAS.

i don't know how exactly i can check it. My buddy who has the laser here just got outta the marines so i can't swap in a known good one cuz i don't have one. Is there a way i can check it though?

I dont reall know for sure.. i know i went to auto zone for the free diagnostic. The little thing said that it my O2 sensor was rreading bad. Other than that i just had to take it into a shop and have change it to see if that was the problem. If i had had trhe parts or gave enough of a shit i would have done it myself. it was just easier to take it into a shop.
So your best bet for checkin it would be to switch it for a good one i guess..

i might be able to find one locally to borrow. If so, I'll give that a shot

well just thought I'd chime in and say the problem has been fixed. Checked the ignition timing with a timing light. I was set to 0 degrees. I reset it for 5 and now she's runnin like a champ. Hopefully she stays runnin for the whole trip home!