http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D66...3ED7932309A.htm

Go there, and then it links you to more abuse pictures.

What are your thoughts on it?

It makes me sick, but discuss.

http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/ima...223251_1_6.jpg

this touches very close to home....

lets just say i would want wengance on the people commiting the abuse!!! equal wengance and humiliation!! look at that bitch.. she's god ugly.. hell she's probably all bruised up from the 10 foot pole that everybody's poking her with..and humiliating and abusing prissoners is what makes her feel good.. who the fuk does she think she is.. i'd slap her back to stone age if i was right there!!! her only place as a woman is in front of the stove cooking!!! bitch!


-E

I just read a couple different articles about that. How horrible. The pictures are so disturbing... What kind of human being does anything in any of those pictures to another human? It's so immoral and wrong that it seriously makes me sick. I thought that things were starting to slowly get better from talking to a friend there and reading all the news on it, but after those pictures have been released, I don't want to even think about what the Iraqis will do now. It's going to become more bloodly then it already has been... I don't even want to think about it... it gags me.

Completely wrong. No morals or humanity over there. Complete cowards. We are fighting the worst war. Enemy does not show thier face, like 9/11. Just evil people in power. I don't like there way of life. It leads to tyranny, one ruler. No freedom. No respect for women. We are vulnerable country, but we are free. No mitsubishi eclipse to have fun with over there. Support the troops and the war. Otherwise there will be another 9/11. Don't listen to the democrats get on the band wagon about how the war has gone wrong. Their view leads to socialism. Want you to conform so you are subject to government control. This is the arrow they point to. War never goes well. Its all bad. Keep Bush in office so he can manage everything like he has. Sorry about the political opinion everyone, but this is a real serious. I put this number one concern and family. Why I watch the news. My mitsubishi is somewhere far down the list of importance.

I could hardly call that "abuse", degradation maybe, but not abuse.On the abuse scale that rates about 1, on a scale compared to Saddams abuse, about -100.I'm not downplaying this either, its extremely damaging to everything we are doing in Iraq, and those involved should be punished severely.But the fact is, they already hate us, this won't make it much worse.

I agree with Jason R, we need to keep Bush in office.Kerry will take the Reagan/Clinton route, which is what caused 9/11 in the first place.In case you didn't know,we owe Reagan and Clinton for 9/11.

i dont know what kind of scale to compare it to, but i dont think it should happen in the first place. i cant imagine being in a counrty like that and having people try to free us and have that shit happen.

This is another one of those growing amount of situations being blown way out of proportion.Sure its wrong any way you look at it, but if the situation was reversed, and it was americans imprisoned by them, the prisoners would be lucky to have that relatively small amount of abuse.And lets not forget, these aren't just random citizens plucked off the street and put in prison, these are either prisoners of war(combatants) or just plain criminals.Abuse of that level probably happens on a daily basis in nearly every prison in the world, wheres the public out cry on that? Wheres Al-Jezeeras out cry on the INNOCENT workers and media or our soldiers that are captured, beaten, and usually murdered on a regular basis?

I say it could be worse for them. Dont bother me to see that picture after what the did to that american girl.

War prisoners or not, we signed the Geneva convtion. We should either honor than, or withdraw if we're going to do stuff like that.

How exactly did Clinton, or any other American official, cause two planes to fly into the WTC?

Jecek, two wrongs don't make a right. We should be better than this.

I've always been one to say that it's wrong to generalize. I would only hope that these 3 or 4 idiots will not completely taint the reputation of the United States Armed Forces.

I also think it's unfair to think that all Iraqi's hate the US. My friend, Specialist David Fink, spent a year in Iraq, and they had a 75% positive relationship with the Iraqi people.

I also agree that this is not a severe form of abuse. Remember the Iraqi's who hung our US troops' bodies from a bridge?

With the Bush/Kerry thing, I'm writting in AJ from President.

God Bless America.

Although I think it's important to deal with things like this, Let's not all lose sight of what we have, and what is most important.

I was adopted from South Korea when I was 8 months old, and I am thankful everyday more and more that I was given the opportunity to live in the United States, to walk down the street and not worry about RPG's and Scud Missiles. To go to the store, and not fight over the little food that may still be there. I have a very secure, "decent" paying job, and people care about me. I'm not forceed by my government to say or do anything I don't believe to be true.

The fact that we can have this conversation is just amazing. Think about it, In over half the world, you would be unable to read this post, either because your country is undeveloped, or your government bans freedom of speech.

Punish the wrong, Praise the brave, ture, and just, and God Bless America (whom ever that may be to you).

Have you had any members of your family in a concentration camp...

if the answer is yes they you might know how i feel about the abuse the captives are going thru...

Us breaks soo many rules and gets away with it, if another country did that there would be some serious problems... notice how no US press was able to report that news? can you say media control? Not until it was released in the other parts of the world THEN just THEN was the US media able to report about it so that it seams that they have the "freedom" ....

-E

Honeslty,

I think Bush Should appologize for the treatment. (because USA is better then this)

I also think the people involved should be Blamed not the "Defense Secratary" (unless he OK'd this type of behavior) I'm a strong believer in you are responsible for your own actions. I don't understand where people get off trying to place the blame on someone else. (personally I think those that do are probably the biggest Law Breakers there are, why else would they be ok with blaming someone else for there actions?)

I also think this situation should not be the focus. We need to keep things focused on the Underling reason we are doing what we are doing there.

I also am with ENES on the whole chick thing - I saw that picture in the news paper here at work and honestly I thought it was a 12year old Boy. NO joke I was like WTF am I looking at, is that some officers kid that they let fuck with the prisoners or something?


-brian

I fail to see how stripping down some prisoners naked violates the geneva convention.I do not agree with that kind of treatment, but we really don't even know the context of the supposed "abuse".Prisoners get strip searched in every prison of the world, hows that abuse? How do we know thats not what these pictures of? Degrading yes, "abuse" I doubt it.

I didn't mean for that to sound like Clinton/Reagan were totally responsible for 9/11.Reagans actions in Beirut and Clintons actions in Somalia, as well as other officials, sent the message to terrorists that America will pull troops out areas as a result of terrorist attacks.When terrorists bombed the marine barracks in Beirut,killing alot of marines, what did Reagan do? He pulled out our troops.When they shot down the blackhawk and dragged bodies of our soldiers through the streets of Mogadishu, what did Clinton do? He pulled out our troops.Even though its against official policy to negotiate with terrorists, we have established a history of giving in, commit some terrible act, and America will leave.Bush on the other hand, is sending the right message, we won't back down.

JasonR ... you have a bad bad attitude... one that is not for this world.. have you seen any of us try to push one way or another... wtf man.. don't make me upset, you would't like me upset... ooh vote this man, vote that man, i'll piss both ways too.. uhh.. i'm out, i am getting very upset.... need a punching bag... fuk this chit.. i hate everything..

-E

thats just wrong man....

first of.. look at the leash around the neck...
leash, comon you treat your dog a lot better than that!!!

naked... why do they have to be naked? during the strip search ONLY ... not all the time and not in hallways....

if thats what they do regularly, what don't you see behind the closed doors?

-E

My point was, that we really don't know what was happening in the pics.And the leash, yeah thats definately not right.

also why is he on the ground naked... and she looking and holding the leash like that? at least have male guards if you are going to have the men naked...

plus look at her, that is probably as close as a man has ever gotten to her... hell they weren't using the 10 foot poke sticks to poke her but to keep her away from them..

-E

Thanks for the relpys guys. I know that all of you don't think what happened is right, and that's good. Some other guys (on a different board) are supporting the pictures. I don't mean to rip on anoyone of you guys, it's just kind of hard to stay completely calm when you see people of your own country doing these things. It really makes me think a couple of things. #1, what kind of mindset are our troops being trained into? Are they being told the Iraqi's are lesser than human? #2, who ordered (if anyone), the abuse of these people? I'm sure that these peoples supervisors knew of it. #3, why wasn't there an IMMEDIATE apology from Mr. Bush when these pics surfaced.

Ugh, it really sucks this had to happen.

Link to Geneva convention http://fletcher.tufts.edu/multi/texts/BH240.txt

Noah

EDITED for spelling, oh noeess!!11!

"War is hell."

You posted a link to it and you can't even spell it?. Its spelled GENEVA not geniva.

Really? hmm thanx for reminding me but i haven't forgotten!!!

-E

:stick:

Quote (enes @ may 7 2004, 8:18 am)

Are you serious? I have a bad attitude because I gave a political opinion. That must go for the majority that stands for something. You piss both ways, what do you care, if your upset, your weak minded. Your funny. I could never get upset over one persons opinion or belief because its everywhere. You must spend allot of time punching your bag. Obviously voting one way or another has a direct effect on what we see in the picture. The post was meant to create reply's. Mine was pretty strong. Respect everyones view. I think it is terrible and wonder about the mind set about the soldiers, but what do I know, I am not being shot at. We are lucky to have opinions.

actually what got me pissed off in your post is "vote for this " let people make their own opinion and vote on what they think is right and what they want to vote.. don't be trying to feed people on what they should do.

you calling me weak minded? what do you know about me.... you know nothing about me so sit down ...... (edited by enes)

-E

Bush did apologize yesterday...

I think what the soldiers did is wrong but I back Bush. I dont find this comparable to anything that happened in Iraq before we came over there to "free" Iraq.

I didnt hear or see anything about that girl you guys are talking about. Can anyone link me to a story or whatever?

Either Star Trib, or Pioneer Press has a good article on this, and on the guy who "blew the whistle."

JasonR, if you knew anything about Enes you would understand why he's upset. Keep up the good work, keyboard warrior.

This is definitely wrong. Prisoners of war get slapped around a little, that's how it is. But to take pictures humiliating them and treating them as sub-human is not right, at least not by the Geneva Convention standards. We need to take the moral high road here, even though the same courtesy might not be extended to us.

And it's not Bush's fault, nor Rumsfeld's, it's the rogue action of a couple of enlisted men and women taking advantage of their power. They should be court martialed, but to put our highest officials on trial for this is absolute crap. It stinks of a democratic plot to bring down the president and his staff during election year. :stick:

I agree with you mostly, although the responsibility soley falls on Rumsfeld's shoulders. He is responsible for these war camps, and somehow should have had better supervision of his troops. I will agree with you that I don't think this was ordered, and really shouldn't make Bush look too bad.

Until you get the fist hand experiance being the abused one (ie. the naked man in that picture) you will not get Enes's point. Also just beacuse they would be able to do something like this to the US soldiers that doesn't mean you can justify what happend down there as it doesn't make you any better then them. Yes War is Hell and war is wrong.

Coloreful??


http://www.prijedor.ba/slike/l8.jpg

http://www.prijedor.ba/slike/l9.jpg

http://www.gavagai.pl/nato/obozy/trnopo17.jpg

http://www.rakovcani.o-f.com/warpictures/trnopolje5.jpg

http://www.amela.4mg.com/cslika5.jpg

http://www.rakovcani.o-f.com/deadzoneinsarajevo.gif


Taken from: http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports/7th.html

Following is the text of the Supplemental United States Submission of information to the United Nations Security Council in Accordance with Paragraph 5 of Resolution 771 (1992) and Paragraph 1 of Resolution 780 (1992), dated April 12, 1993.

"A 57-year-old Bosnian Muslim witnessed ethnic cleansing of Prijedor in late July 1992. The Serbs in Prijedor killed large numbers of Muslims in the Muslim section located in the city center. The witness saw them massacred 18 Muslim men at the home of Mustafa Ceric, who was one of the victims. JNA soldiers cut off two fingers (the little finger and the ring finger) of each man's hand "so they could make the sign of the cross." The they cut off the men's noses and ears, and finally cut their throats."


and then

"According to Muslim witnesses, Muslims conducted revenge killings in Gorazde during the summer of 1992, executing innocent Serbs summarily and destroying whole districts where Serbs have congregated. Gorazde city officials confirmed that there had been no trials."


PS. Enes and my self harbor lot of hate toward certain Bosnians but im glad we haven't gone mad. Friend of mine (Bosnian Serb) killed him self a week ago by jumping in front of the train. Can you guess why???

Just drop the subject as no one is innocent!

i dont believe having down to bare clothes is wrong. a picture is worth a thousand words, how to choose to look at it is your choice. of course i agree with the leash is crap.

If war is wrong, there would be no US right now. We would be part of England, France, Spain or later in WWII, Japan. War is a terrible, necessary thing. If you want to be a left wing liberal, then the country won't be able to defend itself. The trees that you hugged aren't going to stop an invading army!

You have to stand up for what you believe in. Now I do not agree with all wars, Vietnam was carried out totally wrong. Civil Wars should be left to their own people. If you want to give supplies to one, fine, but don't send our men in to die for their country. The same is pretty much true for Iraq. Send our guys in, get the job done, and get the hell out! I don't understand why we are still over there. Give the good guys a bunch of arms, train them and head out.

Ok, I agree with you on about most things you said, but Clinton took part in a "conflict" if I remember right. I never said that we shouldn't be at war right now either, and I'm a democrat. Generalizing that all democrats will never go to war is idiotically wrong. It's just that we don't want to.

Update on the scandal, thier are now reports of rape, forced rape, and homicide coming out of that prison.

I'm not a moderator, but I think we need to remember that we are all US citizens, and we all are entitled to an opinion, but we cannot personally insult and attack each other, here or anywhere.

Let's play nice.

And God Bless America

I think all that crap was wrong. And I know those couple pics will probably make the entire armed forces look bad. Sucks because I would never do anything like that, and i feel bad for the people. But the military is just like anywhere else. You always have your retards who are gunna act a fool and make us look like idiots. Damn the retards!!!

100% agree. It's sad because from the way it sounds, it was 8 gaurds involved, and whom ever their superiors were.

Noah

I hope this information isn't coming from Al-Jezeera.

CNN

same thing