Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

1.6L 4-banger, specifically. This is pretty cool!

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/10/o...e-four-cylind/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....mw-m12-630.jpg

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

A good opportunity for more technology to trickle down.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Hey, they are using FFM toO!

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Is there really no timing chain on that engine?

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Gonna be insane. Definite witchcraft goin' on in those engines. lol.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

It's pretty cool that they're trying something new, but I do have my doubts. First they lower the maximum allowed RPM, now they're completely changing platforms. What's next? No exhaust noise over 98db, and it must pass CA smog?

Don't get me wrong, I love Formula 1 and I don't ever want it to go away. But this is a HUGE change. Questions that come to mind are, how is this going to affect the handling of the car, how is the new reduced engine allowance going to affect lap times and power? However, I can see this making F1 even better to watch. Now that teams are going to be allowed an even more limited number of engines they are going to have to focus even more on reliability and overall balance. Plus now that were going to get to see millions of dollars of R&D in to a 4 cylinder, I am sure this will push the envelope (in all aspects) for power output and reliability for the 4 cylinder platforms.

You could call this an early morning rambling, so I apologize if any parts or all of it is just a bunch of useless shit.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Well, it's not the first time F1 has made a major engine change and likely won't be the last. What I don't get is they want to keep costs down yet they do something like this. Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Four engines per season?? Ya right.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Nope, looks like gears.


I'm liking this rule change. It'll be like a blast to the past....

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

This will prove to be interesting. I wonder if they're going to limit boost like stupid CART did.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

I say just limit engine size and RPM, and tell them to have at it. Do whatever else you want with the engine.

And they could deliver a couple engines to me, I wouldn't mind.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

And they should throw the Coates rotary valve heads on them while they're at it.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Holy eff those are awesome! I hadn't heard of them before. The high-rpm aspect makes it well worth doing.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Wow, this is gonna own.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

They should, but for some reason, those haven't caught on with any major manufacturer for cars. I found that site back in 2001 or 2002 after thinking about what kind of awesome improvements could be made. It turns out someone beat me to that punch.

Anyway, the 4 cylinder idea is great and I can't wait to hear numbers from teams like Brorarri.. er Ferrarri.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

F1 did run turbo 4 cylinders and 6 cylinderss making a ton of power for 1 quick qualifying lap, then dropped the power so it would last the race.

As for limiting the boost I think they covered that by saying they can only have a hand full of engines for the hole season.

Its about cutting costs on one hand and trying to further develop products that could be used in cars of the future. Which for the most part is small displacement high MPG engines.

~John

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

And also dropping to a 12,000 RPM rev limit. I'll miss the sound more than anything.

But while dropping engine size and output, they are also adding in hybrid systems or as they call them KERS, Kinetic Energy Recover Systems. So overall, speed should be similar.

And yes Febo, there is no belt or chain. As the picture shows they used magical gears to drive the cam. It's less common but out there.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Nobdy has mentioned the coolest part of the whole thing..... DIRECT INJECTION!!

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Meh. Diesels have been direct injection for...ever... It will be interesting to see what they manage to do with it. I'd guess the only reason they didn't use it already was some rule that said so.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

^^Not to mention Mazdaspeed 3's and 6's have it, and its really nothing special on those, they really struggle to make any kind of big power.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

There are nice gains to be had, bieng able to control fuel timing.....

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

I'm assuming the injectors can't be upgraded. That'd definitely be a problem in the tuner world.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Nah, its because of the retarded cam driven fuel pumps they use, apparently direct injection uses super high fuel pressures, and they can't get a pump to keep up.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

No one has been innovative enough to find and implement a higher volume pump. It's not mazda's fault people are afraid of power. They could also just bypass that system all together and use regular injectors if they are only interested in power.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

I thought it was the necessity of the high fuel pressure in direct injection systems (1000psi+) to overcome the cylinder pressures and to provide proper atomization, otherwise whatever is in the cylinder would be forced right back into the fuel system once the injector opened.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Correct.

I know cummins uses upwards of 30,000 psi on there common rail systems. At these fuel pressures, it is vital to keep any moisture out of the fuel. Since water is none condensable, it will blow the injector tip right off and wreak havok. A fuel/water seperator is mandatory. Maybe this is part of the problem with gasoline engines?

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

So, by water, you mean a liquid, right? And liquids are uncompressable, that's what you are saying? What is gasoline or diesel? Not a liquid if it can be compressed, I guess. blackrosenaskjd, I think you are partially right about the water seperator thing. It's a good idea not to have water in your fuel, it might cause problems when run through the pump and injectors, and it would also cause problems for the combustion, I'm sure. But it's just as compressable as gas or diesel. You can buy power washers that will cut your hand off faster than the Mujahadine.

And Matt, I was talking about just making it port injection. That would be why I said bypass, and not replace. If they were using their noggins, they would use diesel parts on their cars and make power. The tractor pull subculture has been working on that stuff for years.

I even considered for a minute putting diesel injectors in my engine where the jet valves used to be, but it sure was easy to buy a port injection manifold instead.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

"high-pressure gasoline injectors that can dump fuel into the combustion chamber at up to 7,251 psi."

Yes the fuel system at the injectors needs to have higher fuel pressure then cylinder pressure, its funny how its 7,251 psi.

With port injection that is why we use fuel pressure regulators, in vacuum the fuel is being sucked out and in boost its being forced back in, the regulator keeps the injector size the same.

~John

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Water is not as compressable as diesel fuel, it also has no lubrication. So its vital to remove the water at high fuel pressure.

Re: Goodbye 18k RPM v8's: F1 is Officially going Turbo 4-banger!
 

Curious to see what kind of tech will trickle down from this.