Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I like it when they have ambitious goals that they can actually achieve and not by simply writing a check.

Go get 'em.
(I still have that direct port setup)

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I like how it has become a sin to not be able to do your own machine work/block assembly etc on this site. Heaven forbid that people have other pressing things to do and don't have the know how/tools to complete said job. Excuse me for not being my own mechanic.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Don't worry, it's only a matter of time. I never imagined I'd know how to do a timing belt, swap a headgasket, or even yank a trans. Sigh.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Before your tampon gets all kinds of soaked, being a car guy you just naturally become more and more of a DIYer, I love cars and love to learn about them, but lately its becoming increasing that asshats show up with a check book and just write away to be popular and that is how this game is.

Now if you are one of those people that has the $$$ to do it then congrats to you, I know on more than one occasion that some of the jobs and the time constraints have made me wish that I could just pay someone to do it, I know B-man on here has been in the same boat and has paid local shops to do jobs he could of easily done if he had the time (other users too).

I think true DSMers, pride themselves on being able to be in the built not bought category most of the time. Plus if you have put anything together yourself I'm sure you know of the happiness and pride you have in whatever you have built, not just cars.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I'd rather people be car enthusiasts by writing checks than not be interested in cars at all. John is one extreme, building and fabbing everything himself, and as much as you don't want to hear it our community needs both types of people.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I am not mad, just making an observation...this site has always had that feel to it from Day 1, I am used to it now. I love to do stuff myself, and if I have the tools to do it I will for sure try!

Typically though, the stuff I have paid shops to do, it is cheaper to pay for labor than to buy the tools necessary to do it.

Also the car used to be my daily driver so I needed it done right and quick. Now with me having a back up car, I will try more stuff, because I agree doing stuff yourself is awesome! Nothing feels better than doing it yourself and having stuff work, puts a :D on your face.

John is for sure an extreme on this though, most people can't do this themselves even if they want to.

Enough off topic, i was just commenting, no more clutter here.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Here you go, kids.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Saw this coming, lol.

I shouldn't of replied even I figured this would happen, oh well no harm no foul I guess.

Thanks Matt D :)

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

...because we need more drama. Exactly what I've come to expect from you, Aaron.

This topic is less a debate and more a personal choice. Not everyone likes to run around in ratty $500 1G's and not everyone wants to own a $50k+ Evo. Good thing there is plenty of middle ground so we can all find exactly where we fit in this community.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Thanks matt d.

If you pay to get work done I hate you and think you smell, even though my friends own a shop and my brother works at one and my cousin owns his own shop too.

Oh and I can do anything, even though I just did my first ball joint and tie rod ends. 1st time using a ball joint press not as scary as I thought.

Kracka I was kinda bored and sitting on the throne.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

haha :D

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

My experience has been quite the opposite. Talonevo could get an entire motor rebuilt within a month, including ordering parts and machine work. It took DB five months to get Dave's car done. It doesn't really seem to matter if you have the money to pay somebody or not because there are only so many trustworthy people out there...and they have 20 other customers in line.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Your throne is made of recycled car parts. You may want to go get a tetanus shot.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Theres really no debate. If you have money to pay people do to the work, go ahead. If you dont have the money, you are stuck doing it yourself.

Im kinda of in the middle. I like working on things, but if I were loaded id probably hand piddly stuff out to a shop. I am not loaded though and like to save as much money as I can, and also have access to every tool I need.

Having a shop build your car from the ground up is lame though.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I'm understanding that I am coming off quite opinionated here.
In case anyone didn't know I wasn't attacking anyone on here, if it wasn't for some of these crazy shop/customer builds I wouldn't see any awesome HP cars and for those that didn't know that is how I found the site, paying LSE to do a timing belt job when they had some special. Then it became my only car and I needed a clutch and they cut me a smoking deal and did the clutch and I threw in a fuel pump too.
A couple of weeks later welcome to dyno day and car starting on fire.

Sorry I don't care to always nut hug, but don't take me so seriously online I'm way too full of shit for anyone to do that, if you think I am being serious just ask.

But on topic, I "think" i'd rather build than buy, but too many times have I wanted or said when elbows deep in something that I wish I would/could pay someone to do it. My personal goal is to build an engine though even though it might be cheaper/easier/faster to buy one new or used.

Matt D. - who told you I got a welder? :squint:

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Man I have to hop in on this one. I have so many ideas when it comes to fabbing up things. . .most have already been created after a little bit of research, but still can be simplified. I think the worst is when you know how to, and your capable of the DIY, but as mention you dont have the tools in some cases even time. It brings real joy when i can help my friends do a brake job or spark plugs, or a gasket, oil change etc. See them enjoy trying something that they wouldn't of ever dared by them self. Help save money that can be put to a different use.

Granted i am jealous sometimes, of people that can buy and get it built. Yet ive learned to be happy for them so they can enjoy what they have. After all they worked for it. I use to enjoy working on cars a lot more because i didnt know how to drive them (Backwards i know) now that i can actually drive its 20 Times better working and driving. The point people that can buy, but maybe not built shouldn't show of in a disrespecting way, running there mouth.

People that can Build but cant buy shouldn't cry, and complain there time will come. People that can build and buy DO IT UP & DONT BE AFRAID TO ANSWER A NOOBS QUESTION without making them feel stupid. Unless they are acting a fool!

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I built my awd spyder from bone stock incluting all the motor besides the machining of it. I can't imagine how much it would of costed if I would of had someone do the entire thing for me.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Who knows if I can build a motor? Haven't started it up yet :D

I didn't machine the block myself I paid someone to do that, should I hang it up and quit while I am behind? ;)

I'll tell you what annoys me in the enthusiasts community, people that believe EVERYTHING that is posted in car forums and keep regurgitating it everywhere. People that call shops expecting free tech support over the phone, especially the "I'm all out of ideas and tried nothing" types. They are not going to buy a thing, they want services for free over the phone, but you have to help them or else they will bad mouth you over the internet. :(

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Honestly, Ill buy it to a certain point, on certain conditions.
If i were to buy another dsm, it would be ideal to already have the 6bolt in there and internals built, and perhaps a built head. Other than that little things like dsmlink etc. Mainly because i have already gone through all this with previous cars, and have always lost my ass in the end. I would rather have the parts already paid for and have the seller lose their ass than myself. :) but thats just me.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

oops, should have read the rest of the thread. hahah

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Me personally, I would love have the technical knowledge and build my car up like John did BUT I don't have the tools or the knowledge that John has. Yes, I could learn it and all but realistically, there isn't enough time for me to learn it. And purchasing all those tools and all just isn't worth it for me right now even though I have dreamed of just owning all the tools in the world in my garage. I know eventually I will learn how to do a timing belt job or head gasket but I just don't trust my self enough to do the work...BUT, at least I know what the issues are rather than pay someone to tell me what the issues are.

^this.

I'd rather pay someone who knows what they're doing to my car than someone who says "...that should work...". I respect the work that most mechanics do because I envy the skills that I don't have......yet. But those guys that know what they're doing deserve what they get. But, if someone is just writing checks to a car they have and they have no clue what or how it works, than those are the kinds of people who shouldn't be driving at all.

agreed:) After going to a dyno-day, I just stuck with this community.

This is also why I went from MNSC to here because some-to-most of the members on MNSC never helped out the new guys or just didn't know enough and talked a shit ton of trash to other "enthusiasts".

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I really wish I could build a car from the ground up. But no way could I. I don't have the skill, knowledge, or experience. Fabbing is my absolute weakest link. I have tried fabbing, but I kinda suck. So I can do my own work meaning I could install an exhaust or header. But actually building one is where my weakest point is. But I'd like to do more of that so I can become better. I'm going to try and dabble into fab a little more with this new project.

I am guilty however of sometimes just being too busy, and ending up having shops do the work for me even if I could have done it myself. I've had shops do clutches for me, 4-bolt swaps, things I could have done but simply didn't have time for. I think that's probably the norm for most people here. A balance between DIY and having help.

I personally love to help other people, because I crave more knowledge, and I love to spread anything that I know or have learned to help someone else. I ask a lot of questions. But I guarantee I answer more than I ask. What bothers me is when people start becoming unwilling to help, start to feel they are better than you because maybe they now work at or own a shop, or have made XXX power and feel they are above you now. I don't know everything. Nobody knows everything. I think it's good when people accept that, and just simply help when they can, despite their "status" whether it be a shop owner, a racecar driver, a regular everyday normal guy, or a 16y/o drop out.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I personally don't trust anyone enough to work on my cars. I want it done my way, and no other way unless someone can show me that their way is better.

For me, most joy is from building the car. And then the working end result is the icing on the cake!

The next car I build, whatever it may be, will be amazing. Is all I can say :)

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

:score010:

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I started out doing my own work because I couldn't afford to have someone else do it. Now I can afford it but still do most of my own work because I enjoy it to some degree. I actually got into doing everything myself because I had a shop do my timing belt way back in the day and it made it 500 miles before it snapped and took out the head. Learned to do timing belts right then and there. Then I had a local speed shop(not around anymore, nobody that's on here) build a short block for me which they effed up. That experience got me to build my own engines from then on. Now I sent me Lotus off to a shop for repair and it took all summer and it still isn't done, so now I'll probably do all the work on them as well. I guess your experiences can drag you beyond the basic mod install. And BTW, I found that the money I saved doing this stuff myself more than paid for all the tools needed to do them, that's how I built my tool collection.

Just some hopefully useful tidbits from the old guy.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I try to balance it out... right now John is installing the center diff in my Shep tranny... But I just dont feel comfortable tearing it apart and guessing on what the shims should be to make it work 100% proper. But, I did all the tear down to get just the tranny to him.

MAP did the machine work and assy on my shortblock and I did all the long block assy. Just a matter of not having some of the tools or the time/proper environment to do it all myself. I've done my own intercooler piping and plenty of other work on the car. Just a mix of what I feel i can and can not do.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Best thing is to buy someone else's already built car and pay a fraction of what it would cost to build. Main problem is buying someone else's disaster instead of a good car.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

That's true. If you can find a built car that's done right, there's big savings to be had.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Some day i would love to get a K-1 Attack kit and build that... someday...

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Let's hope you work on your fabrication skills between now and then. :scared:

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

My fabrication skills are just fine thank you. And what have you seen that i have fabricated?

Edit: If you say my workbench, that thing is still up and working great with a ton of crap still on it.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

As cool as a K-1 is, nobody wants to see/ride in/drive one that looks like your workbench. ;)

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

You just gave me an idea! Hey guys, now taking donations for plywood!

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I build/fabricate everything I do, but time is normally the issue for me personally.

I have no problem with people who just pay to have a car built(or work performed in general). It comes down to time a lot of the times for those who pay to play.

It would take a lot for me to have someone else build me a car(trust wise), but those people are out there, and if money isn't a concern, I'll happily pay and drive(however, I'm sure I'd also have a project or two that I'm working on myself at the same time).

Case in point, I just don't want to deal with or have time for building my next tranny(even though I'm fully capable of/and have done so). I'll either find one that I'd want that is built(or basic tranny that shifts well), or end up sending one of the extra trannies out to Shep at some point.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I have built every one of my cars. I could never bring my self to pay some one to do it for me. I would not even want to know what one of the shops would charge to build a evo 3 like mine. I know I just have mine,family's,and freind's time and help in it and around 50k in to all the parts and car by it self. But then I started building cars with my dad when I was 9. I always have to have a project going on it is what I love to do for my self and aly. I have also been building mirage swaps for people now to fund all my cars.

Shane is the only person that I have gave money to for my car and it was for a tune. that and an aliment are the only things I pay for

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Got any pics of it with the "ton of crap" on it :D. I was about to find that post when I saw your original post.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

There's three things I don't do. Trannies, alignments and tuning. Shep does my tranny, Jeff does my alignment and Shane does my tuning. Everything else including paint, I do. It's personal pride, and like others have said, I don't really trust other people with my car. Any other car of mine, no problem, but not the GSX.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Some people like to spend the money and do things right themselves, some people are very cheap and half ass their own cars but still do them their selves, some people open up their check book and let someone else build their car and some people want someone else to build their car for cheap. To all is their own and Ill keep doing things how I like them.

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

Re: Build it or buy it, the debate
 

I think it comes down to what part of cars you are into. I like cars as a hobby, there for I have done every thing my self with cars. to find out what I can make them do. I think others enjoy cars because they like the sport of driving/racing them. I am sure there is cases that money/time have a lot to do with what people do as well. In the end we can all enjoy a well put together machine, wethere it was bought or built. just my 2 cents.