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Not sure what I am thinking, but I bought another dsm. The road course stuff has got me interested in possibly joining a club (SCCA or NASA) and I bought a 95 AWD talon to use for my car. I was originally thinking about building a V8 rx7 or 240sx, but determined it would be better to use a car that I have experience messing with instead. The car is 100% stock but has some miles on it. It runs well though.

I will be gutting the car to the bare minimum, installing a cage, changing the suspension, throwing in a 6 bolt and setting up the car for around 300-350whp.

I don't expect the project to move very quickly, but it should be fun when it is completed. The car will probably see HPDEs more than anything but I would eventually like to be SCCA or NASA certified. Since I will be modifying the car, I will be required to drive in a higher class so I don't plan on being competitive unless I get at least a few years in.

I don't have any pics with me (out of town for work) but will post some up when I get back.

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Hahaha, as you guys are selling them all, go buy another one. Do DSMers ever really let go?

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I've always been interested in doing something like SCCA. The 1320 is fun, but....well, it's only a 1320. I've never really seriously looked in to it, but all my friends that do it love...Maybe I'll follow suit!

We may try, but we can never fully let go.

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Not sure. I am not specifically tied to dsms in any way. Just found the car for a good deal and decided to try this car. The hardest thing for me to figure out is what kind of turbo I want to go with. I want to go bigger than the 16g/HTA 68, but am not sure what would work best. I am considering throwing on a 60 trim I have here to see how it does initially. Otherwise I might go with a GT30R or something similar.

If anyone knows of any good places to buy roll cages or some good wire tuck threads, LMK. I still need to do a bit of research in those areas.

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Haha back into DSM's....again! Let me know whenever you need a hand on the car if you plan on working on it in Isanti, I'll be out there quite a bit to work on mine the next couple months.

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Considering this is a road race car I'd want something with good response that is properly sized versus something that will ultimately make big top end power. There is an autocross Evo that had an FP Green on it a couple years ago, he dominated his class nationally and the car was plenty responsive and made 400ish on 100 octane.

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IF u can use E85 I think a 16ghta would be mint.
Good luck with the project

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This sounds fun!

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I am not set on making big power, but I am "thinking" that I would be able to keep something around the size of a 60 trim spooled on the track assuming I am in the right gear. I would rather try it out before paying $700 for the HTA 16g or around the same price for a used 30r. I am pretty sure E85 is ok for club racing as some of the road racers on Tuners use it but I am not 100% sure yet.

Goodhart- The car will probably be kept in Isanti for the most part.

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Good luck! John (pushit) i believe is doing cages for a decent price.

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My bad I didn't read that u already had the 60, As i have never road raced before, what kind of power band is suited for that?
You get to use some of the higher gears?

I'm not too far out from Isanti I would like to see what kind of car suits this kind of racing.

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It is good that the DSM is being put to good use by driving it in SCCA or NASA! I am getting sick of mine just sitting around. I want to put a cage in it and start having fun also!

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What I'm saying is that you'd be able to modulate the power of a smaller turbo easier than that of a larger turbo. You don't want to hammer the throttle coming out of the corner, have the turbo spool and the car decide to swap ends. Fun, maybe. Friendly, no.

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The 16g has a great powerband for a road race car, but at this time, I am willing to sacrifice a little on the bottom end to be able to pull on the straighter sections. For boost, I want to stay in the lower to mid 20psi range and am not sure I will be happy with the power output of the 16g at that level (maybe I am wrong though). Also, if I decide to do SCCA or NASA, I will likely have one of the slower cars in the class regardless of how good/bad I drive.

The closer tracks, BIR, Road America and MAM all have decent straights so I should be able to generate some speed. In the viper, I was able to get into the 130s on the short course (BIR) and over 150 on the long course. I am sure I could probably do a little better on the long course once I get a little more seat time.


I will probably start selling some of my viper parts to put towards this car. I have enough in parts to put down around 800-900whp with the viper, but I don't see any good use for that power.

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I know what you mean. If it doesn't fit what I want, I have no problem yanking it off and trying something else. I just figured I would try it first as it is just sitting here and I was happy with the power level it has last time I used it.

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I edited your post a little :sasmokin:, but my question to the bold statement. WTF man, are you serious put that shit on.

I just found a board down here with sick cars a lotta boost vipers etc, and these dudes love their track racing (not drag)

Probably bad I just watched underground racing videos too.

my vote F DSM, Moar power to VIper and suspension and traction setup. Then run on a low power tune for the track if need be.

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2Gs handle better than 1Gs though right, or take better to mods?

I like your original idea of RX7 or 240 or something that is more pure sports car.

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There are many viper guys in TX. The big hp guys primarily do 1/4 mile, the Texas mile, and the TX2k (you should see them next month). We was thinking of preping one of the vipers better for the track but figured I wouldn't have the guts to try it competitively with one of those cars. Body parts are too expensive. We chose to do the dsm so we could attend SCCA classes and possibly become licensed.

We are still thinking of setting up one of our cars a little better by adding some of the parts we have though. We might throw the following parts on one of them:

-Big brake upgrade
-swap to a rear end with bigger gears
-Throw the ported heads/aftermarket cam in

The ported head/cam swap should get it into the 550-600whp range and the other parts should help somewhat. Any more power than that on the road course would probably be useless. We could turn in the shocks a little (factory ones have adjustable stiffness) but we would probably leave the rest of the suspension stock as it is expensive and the car turns fairly well as it is. We would want to be able to drive the car comfortably on the streets as well.

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From what I have read, 2gs are easier to make turn than 1gs. That being said, it is coming from what I have read on tuners and I have not tested them on a track personally. There are a few guys with 1gs on tuners that are really good and I have seen some good 1g videos though.

A 240 or RX7 probably is a better choice long term, but I don't have the time to really learn either car and have never worked on a V8 before. I have spent a lot of time reading about them but am too busy to go through the swap. Most of the ones that are for sale are also overpriced IMO. I could buy another viper for the price some people put out there...

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ah. makes sense. Good plan you got there. Vipers are awesome, if $$$ ever worked out I would pick one up in a heartbeat for my next project.

Anywho, I hope to make that TX2k10 if my friends down here are still going.

PM me some info on used Vipers. please.

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I don't have any good info on used vipers, but they are fairly affordable if you look around a bit. We got the red one for 23k with some mods but have since sold it because my brother decided he wanted a blue/white instead. We actually got the red one to make a track car because it had 70k miles (high for a viper) and we would feel less guilty blowing that one up. My car only had 8,000 miles at the time and the black one had around 12,000.


If you go to TX2k10, look for a graphite colored 08 and a lime green TT viper with black stripes. They are both from the area and I think both will be going.

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RRE always had some cheap FWD 1G's running around and road courses kicking some arse back in the day.

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The faster dsms that I know of are primarily 1gs, but most of the reading I see suggests 2gs can turn better.

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^same here.

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What are you going to do about the suspension? Hopefully find some nice street tires to put on there as well.

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Still need to research what will work well for the suspension. I talked to the guy who is trying to get a group buy together, but am not sure f I will go that route or not.

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Since you can get aftermarket struts for DSMs I suggest going that route for now. Get some adjustable Konis with nice springs, maybe swaybars too, and you'll be good until you want to get serious.

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Yep.

<=== example. :p

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Why not track it as-is and worry less about building the eff out of it? Just have some fun man, isn't that what attending these races will be all about?

I say keep it super simple. A 60-trim on a road-race car? No thanks! Stick with a smaller turbo, even a basic 14b if you have to. The 16g has proven itself so many times over, just put in something like that and keep boost SUPER conservative, not "low to mid 20's" but more like 18psi. You cannot have fun at a HPDE if your car is blown up, overheating, or just plain not done.

I say keep it simple, do one thing at a time, slowly build the monster but focus more on the driving/experience/fun in the meantime :)

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If you want to do something bigger than a Evo 3 16G/FP68, then I would run an FP manifold and some FP bolt-on turbo. Their stuff always spools great compared to T3 frame stuff. Their 61mm turbos like the FP3065 spool as good as most T3 50-trim setups.

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Hopefully I will have my car up at BIR early this summer. You are more than welcome to jump in for a drive/ride. I still want a few things but suspension wise, I think it should be pretty solid. Archer used to run 350lb springs front/rear and it worked well for them. That was years ago and it seems most on Toooners have found much better setups for the cars.

Currently, I'm sitting on a used setup I picked up from Andy Smeagle(sp) in Stevens Point. He pieced it all together so my life was much easier.
consists of: Koni yellows(adjustables), Ground control perches, hyper coil springs(650fr/450r), RRE upper bearing plates, and he corner weighted it for his car(should be fairly close to my setup).

I added RM swaybars and it seems to handle fairly well. Sill need some good R tires, brakes, and a cage.

As for power, on E85 and E3 16g I'm trapping 119 in the 1/4 on a nearly full weight 2G. That is at 29lbs of boost and a 2.3. I was making more power on a 2g head and stock longblock with cams, but the TQ of the 2.3 is great. Best of luck!

Just found my older dyno sheet after Shane tuned it. Shane got it to 348awhp and 319tq at 22psi on a 7bolt with cams on the 16g and E85.

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^ that is pretty good for that boost level on the stock motor. I was thinking of building a motor, but I am thinking I might just throw in a stock 6 bolt and leave my 2g head on to make it simple for the time being.

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That is kind of what I was thinking as well. Not sure how much time I will have to put towards the car so I am planning to keep it somewhat simple to start.

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I thought about leaving it simpe to start, but I don't want to learn how to drive the car at a lower power level, and then need to learn how to drive it at a higher power level later. I am still somewhat considering throwing a 16g on, but figured I would give the other one a try since I have it. Besides speed=fun :)

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Thanks for the info. I will keep the FP ones in mind. There are so many turbos out there that it is hard to compare them.