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-   -   How to swap heads quickly. (http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24059)

iceminion 08-14-2009 12:17 AM

How to swap heads quickly.
 
Now this idea is not mine, I got it from Rick Shinley of Big Lake, that crazy old bastard had some awesome tricks.

Let the pictures talk for themselves.

http://imgur.com/8KiTY.jpg

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iceminion 08-14-2009 12:19 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
When i pulled the cam gears off, they spun a couple degrees, and I was seriously wondering if I had screwed myself over, however, there is a nice hex point on the cam to grab it with a wrench, it was easy to turn them back to where they needed to be.

Is this awesome?

OMGkiwi 08-14-2009 12:27 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
genius!!!!!

tehehodi 08-14-2009 12:35 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
wow, that is awesome!

iceminion 08-14-2009 01:05 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Joesushi (my little brother) did all of the work, he and I had been brainstorming up an easy way to make this tool. I have to admit it is a fantastic tool, this one is for 2g's and we will be making a 1g tool soon. Anyone need their head gasket or cams swapped out?

jhaan_dude 08-14-2009 01:54 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
gotta love the broken exhaust stud!!!

1QUICK4 08-14-2009 02:06 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Nice

Looks like an advanced version of the bungie cords and Vise-grip method.

Super Bleeder!! 08-14-2009 02:30 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
looks very much like an overcomplicated version of the vice grip method.

but kudos for you guys for making your own tools. :)

Pushit2.0 08-14-2009 09:29 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
So this saves a good 20min of work then?

iceminion 08-14-2009 12:22 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Actually, the belts, and pullies plus the cover to the timing belt takes quite a bit of time. Also remember you have to compress, and insert a pin in the timing belt tensioner. Every time you undo your timing and reassemble it the risk of a timing belt failure goes up. not every dsmer has removed their power steering and air conditioning, if you think you can do all of that in 20 minutes, then you sir, are a machine. So I would estimate that this saves closer to an hour + worrying about the tensioner failing pre-maturely.

So no, this saves more then 20 minutes :)

niterydr 08-14-2009 12:29 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iceminion (Post 300757)
Actually, the belts, and pullies plus the cover to the timing belt takes quite a bit of time. Also remember you have to compress, and insert a pin in the timing belt tensioner. Every time you undo your timing and reassemble it the risk of a timing belt failure goes up. not every dsmer has removed their power steering and air conditioning, is you think you can do all of that in 20 minutes, then you sir, are a machine. So I would estimate that this saves closer to an hour + worrying about the tensioner failing pre-maturely.

So no, this saves more then 20 minutes :)

Curious to see what the total time on your head swap ended up being with this method.

iceminion 08-14-2009 12:35 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Maybe we should video tape it, make a race out of it. This time it took a little longer because some of the bolts broke off in the turbo, but think about it, valve cover, arp nuts, arp studs, thermostat housing hoses and electrical connectors, throttle cable, then LIFT

niterydr 08-14-2009 12:40 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iceminion (Post 300759)
Maybe we should video tape it, make a race out of it. This time it took a little longer because some of the bolts broke off in the turbo, but think about it, valve cover, arp nuts, arp studs, thermostat housing hoses and electrical connectors, throttle cable, then LIFT

Oh. Well assuming the bolts didn't break (that stuff happens regardless), what would be your estimated time on this? I know on a 2g dsm "book time" for a headgasket job is: 7.1
1g headgasket book time is: 6.8

Both figures are via Alldata for awd's with a/c.

john 08-14-2009 12:45 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
I have used the "bungy cord" method several times. It definitly saves time but I have a feeling Nightrider and Pushit2.0 could do the whole job the right way in an hour sooner than the rest of us taking the shortcut method.

scheides 08-14-2009 12:49 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Mark showed me how to do this when we did Kevin_1G_drummer's HG on his 1G, I used the same technique each time I did HG swap on my evo. First time however, I dropped a bolt down in the timing belt cover and ended up pulling the tbelt half apart anyways. Re-doing a t-belt easily adds two hours and a lot of PITA to a HG swap. Just to not have to pull the water pump pulley off alone makes this worth it.

I like your tool, very nice :D

niterydr 08-14-2009 12:55 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by john (Post 300763)
I have used the "bungy cord" method several times. It definitly saves time but I have a feeling Nightrider and Pushit2.0 could do the whole job the right way in an hour sooner than the rest of us taking the shortcut method.

I've done it both ways. In the end I just got really fast at tearing down the timing belt side and setting the timing belt (I've done so many I dont even know the count, same with many members on this forum).

The "lift and yank" sort of way to do it very quick, but the risk of dropping something, bumping something, etc just isn't worth it if someone is paying me to do it. If it is my car and I just did the t-belt stuff, I might entertain the idea, but then most of the dsm's I've owned don't have intake's bolted down to long, a/c systems that work, etc...so all that is out of the way.

Still, anytime you get to invent a tool, is a good day in my book :):whoo:

niterydr 08-14-2009 12:57 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides (Post 300766)
Mark showed me how to do this when we did Kevin_1G_drummer's HG on his 1G, I used the same technique each time I did HG swap on my evo. First time however, I dropped a bolt down in the timing belt cover and ended up pulling the tbelt half apart anyways. Re-doing a t-belt easily adds two hours and a lot of PITA to a HG swap. Just to not have to pull the water pump pulley off alone makes this worth it.

I like your tool, very nice :D

10mm ratcheting wrench and a 10 mm fixed end wrench, Take the ratcheting one and spin it towards the fixed, the fixed will "tighten" the other will loosen up. Then its a game of : :ring: for the 4 bolts as you spin the water pump and remove the bolts.

turbotalon1g 08-15-2009 09:42 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Good idea on the bug hideous tool.
We older dsmers roll zip ties and paper clip thingys even cheap cam blocker from harbor freight.
Congrats though if it makes ur work go faster then it's worth it

joesushi 08-15-2009 10:40 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!! (Post 300721)
looks very much like an overcomplicated version of the vice grip method.

but kudos for you guys for making your own tools. :)

This tool is fast you can have your head swap done in minutes(leaving the manifolds attached), and there aren't any flying vice grips or bungie cords involved! No one likes those!

sleepydsm 08-15-2009 10:45 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
That's awesome, what a time saver!!

scheides 08-15-2009 10:53 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by niterydr (Post 300770)
10mm ratcheting wrench and a 10 mm fixed end wrench, Take the ratcheting one and spin it towards the fixed, the fixed will "tighten" the other will loosen up. Then its a game of : :ring: for the 4 bolts as you spin the water pump and remove the bolts.

The head on my ratcheting wrench is too big for the evo water pump, I guess that's my problem. Then again, coming off isn't really a biggie, you're right. It's putting it back on that is a freaking wh0re! Remember the evo one is on the back side of the motor, the dsm one is more towards the front. Doing it alone sucks extra salty balls.

Pushit2.0 08-16-2009 01:17 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iceminion (Post 300757)
Actually, the belts, and pullies plus the cover to the timing belt takes quite a bit of time.

When you have the right tools and do it enough times, it does not take that much time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceminion (Post 300757)
Also remember you have to compress, and insert a pin in the timing belt tensioner. Every time you undo your timing and reassemble it the risk of a timing belt failure goes up.

If the timing belt job is done properly the pin should just slide right into the tensioner, or use the tensioner tool to compress it a little if the belt has stretched.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceminion (Post 300757)
not every dsmer has removed their power steering and air conditionin, if you think you can do all of that in 20 minutes, then you sir, are a machine.

Again with the right tools it could be done. From what I have seen if you need to pull the head on a DSM then it should be time to replace the timing belt, water pump, pulleys, and tensioners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceminion (Post 300757)
So I would estimate that this saves closer to an hour + worrying about the tensioner failing pre-maturely.

So no, this saves more then 20 minutes :)

It would seem you do this a lot, so time it either way and report back.

~John

john 08-17-2009 02:20 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joesushi (Post 300937)
This tool is fast you can have your head swap done in minutes(leaving the manifolds attached), and there aren't any flying vice grips or bungie cords involved! No one likes those!

My guess is that you were also part in the "creation" of the magical tool.

As stated by many, this can save time but there are several other ways to do this without getting/making a tool which work just as well. This technique is not recommended for anyone who hasn't replaced their timing belt, tensioner, water pump, etc recently.

spinz4 08-17-2009 02:34 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
I bet $10 bucks that the little bit of cam movement made the hydraulic tensioner extend all of the way out, congrats.

Halon 08-17-2009 09:36 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Tool looks cool. If it works well for you, and saves you time, then sounds like a win win situation for you.

FattyBoomBatty 08-17-2009 03:08 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Nice work on the tool. If it helped at all, it was worth it.

joesushi 08-18-2009 10:29 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spinz4 (Post 301126)
I bet $10 bucks that the little bit of cam movement made the hydraulic tensioner extend all of the way out, congrats.

It's an auto adjusting tensioner, so that wouldn't matter. The car runs great now.

niterydr 08-19-2009 08:11 AM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joesushi (Post 301489)
It's an auto adjusting tensioner, so that wouldn't matter. The car runs great now.

Its actually a hydraulic rod that provides tension over the length of a typical belt cycle/revolution. If the tension is not correct to begin with (on the pully/tensoner rod not centered) it is very likely that the tensioner will eventually run out of range and not compensate on during a high rpm condition, or start-up/shut-down stress.

iceminion 08-19-2009 05:29 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by niterydr (Post 301521)
Its actually a hydraulic rod that provides tension over the length of a typical belt cycle/revolution. If the tension is not correct to begin with (on the pully/tensoner rod not centered) it is very likely that the tensioner will eventually run out of range and not compensate on during a high rpm condition, or start-up/shut-down stress.

Correct, an auto adjusting tensioner.

iceminion 08-19-2009 05:32 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pushit2.0 (Post 300972)
It would seem you do this a lot, so time it either way and report back.

~John

We just have loyal customers that like us, that's all.

Forced Fed 08-19-2009 06:27 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Yea it might save time and money, but it also could cost a lot more time and money... If you take the head off, just replace the timing components IMHO...

bertrenolds5 09-01-2009 05:49 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
Is he renting this contraption out? Would like to do my valve seals

slowbubblecar 09-01-2009 07:14 PM

Re: How to swap heads quickly.
 
The bungy cord method worked well enough for me. I was able to swap my head off and back on it a few hours. I used to zip tie the belt to the cam gears in many spots, use the bungey cords from the hood to the top of the cam greas to keep the tension and stick something between the cam gears. Worked well enough that I wouldn't use the time to make a tool. Removing the timing components on a dsm isn't that tough though. Everything is right there after you remove the covers.


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