Compressor Surge
 

I "upgraded" to a knockoff BOV

Now, I had a factory new 14B :) that worked great, however I was using a knockoff bov and it alwasy "fluttered" couldn't make it go away.

A couple days later the innocent 14B blew up, the smoke my car made was epic!!! (the turbine wheel broke off, and dented my tubular O2 housing)

That turbo is a victim of compressor surge.

I have never liked crushing the 1G bov, so I leave them un-crushed

After reading the following mods, I decided to try this.

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_bov_mod.html

And now I have a ruined e3-16G and a ruined bullseye v-trim.

WTF guys? is any fluttering of a BOV acceptable? or should it be clean "pffffft" after letting off of the throttle?

I don't want to ruin my SC61.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

That mod works well, I'd say go for it. Why would you leave the crappy ebay one on if it sucked so bad?

When you let off, should be one solid 'woosh' or w/e. Compressor surge is when accellerating and not letting off though, like lugging in 5th around 3000rpms (or wherever boost onset is on your turbo) and the bov/turbo going 'chah-chah-chah-chah' until you let off....or don't and your turbo blows up.

Wait, where the F are the carnage pics? Post them or ban!

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Ok, ok, ill get u the carnage pics when I get home.

Well, the knockoff BOV killed the 14B (very very broken)

I did modify a stock BOV which killed my e3-16g (Lots of in and out shaft play, sill spins)

And the modified bov on the car which has the bullseye has oil coming out the compressor side of the turbo, I assume from the "flutter" effect of the BOV

Note: they didnt always flutter, sometimes there is a huge "woosh" at higher boost levels, but it did flutter at lower boost levels.

I have no idea

Im just going to get an expensive Tial and call it a day.

Maybe I can rebuild the e3-16g

Re: Compressor Surge
 

WHY?

The 1g bov is much more affordable and after the dodge garage mod, holds just about any pressure you can throw at it. And if your turbos failed after doing this mod, IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR BOV> > >AT ALL!

Re: Compressor Surge
 

The stock Evo IX BOV flutters so it can't be too bad for the turbo. Up until recently a lot of factory turbocharged applications didn't even come with BOV/DV's and those turbos had no problem lasting a long time. I'm betting your issue lies somewhere else.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Then why is it fluttering? why is it compressor surging? rev the engine with hand near (not close) to the turbo and feel the air come out and get sucked back in when the BOV opens...

As far as I understand, if the BOV flutters at all, it is wrong.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Why are you relating compressor surge to BOV flutter?

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Real compressor surge comes from the compressor and happens when a turbo makes too much boost at too low of an RPM. It's common to see if on 61mm turbos without anti-surge comp housing when running 20+psi on a 2.0l. They often surge bad when during spool in the 20-30psi range in the mid RPMs.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

As others have stated, the BOV has nothing to do with the killing of your turbos. I would start by looking into your oiling system. Maybe you have too much/not enough oil pressure at the turbo?

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Yeah, BOv flutter and compressor surge are not related at all. I wouldn't worry about BOV flutter, that just means there isn't enough air coming out to keep it open all the time, it should not hurt anything. I doubt you are getting compressor surge on those little turbos either, the SC61 might, but not the others.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

This.

and this.

How is your feed line? That E16g failure description sounds like a failed thrust bearing on the turbo.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

I'm jumping on the oiling bandwagon too, is your oil feed from the head or from the oil filter housing?

If your car is compressor surging, it's generally moderatly violent. Here's a good idea: LET OFF THE GAS PEDAL! obviously just staying in it will just make it keep happening and be harder on everything. Generally you can get around compressor surge (if that is what you are truely talking about) by just letting off the gas a little and accellerating part throttle through the surge rpms and full throttle after that.

Have you considered a 1.8 sohc swap? ;)

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Yeah, the 1.8 is awesome, i really want to do the 1.6 DOCH swap into something, same bore, really short stroke, like 80mm or something. good for 10,000+ rpms

The feed line is completely stock.....where would one begin to troubleshoot?

Would you recommend using the oil feed line from the housing for this?

My SC61 is fed from the oil filter housing....I spose if my thrust bearing goes out on my SC61 then we can rule out oil feed issues. (yes, I have a full 5 qts of oil in there)

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Are you feeding it clean oil or possibly dirty pre-filter oil from the oil filter housing?

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Check your feed line for blockage, make sure it flows fluid easily.

For that matter, check your turbo drain tube, perhaps its filled with RTV?

Re: Compressor Surge
 

the 14b and the E3-16g had their own feed lines, and their own return lines (one is -8 AN)

However the head could be the issue, I have no way of knowing if there is enough oil coming out of the feed line, is there an easy way? get an oil pressure sender unit and attach it to the turbo feed line?

Re: Compressor Surge
 

I guess! Otherwise just order a oil housing feed line and seal up the stock location.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

I did the same thing and crushed the 1g bov. It held boost like no tomorrow, however during low boost shifts it would flutter crazily. I ended up building very exessive shaft play quickly, blowing 3 turbos, and almost blew up my scm61 (it has some in/out play now and my assumptions are from the back lash flow from the fluttering).

Since then I've changed to a twin bov setup, back to the stock 1g bov (unmodded) and a greddy. The turbo I have in now which is an ebay 16g knock off has lasted 4 months and 4,000 miles going strong. The shaft play is exactly the same as when I put the turbo on.

imo any bov flutter = your turbo is going bye bye soon.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Why are you running two BOV's? And I've been running a Tial on my car for 2 and a half years now and anything under 11 psi it flutters. My turbo is still just fine.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

I've been running a cheap turbo xs for 8 months and under 10psi it flutters and my turbo is fine and has very little shaft play.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

I wanted to eliminate the possibility of the bov system killing my turbos and so far it has worked great for me.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

I'm going to bump this thread up again because i know i have this issue with the galant now...i hope I'm not hijacking this thread. I will post videos of it soon. It's weird because I have the greddy type-s bov and I've adjusted the spring to it's softest and it's still doing surging while on a stand still and it feels like it is dangerously surging after a uphill cruise.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

First things first, I really doubt that is compressor surge, especially at a stand still, that is basically impossible. Are you just talking about BOV flutter? What is it actually doing?

Re: Compressor Surge
 

here we go! i got a video up....ugh...i feel bad for driving it around this way. anyways, just a heads up that this is a MAF from the 95-96 Summit Wagon/Vans. it is just temprorary because I'm cleaning the HKS filter from the original one.

EDIT: you can hear it after 13 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQ4h5gB_iI

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Holy noise, batman! That didn't seem like very much, and you can't build much boost just free revving it.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

lol..yeah...i dont have a great camera. but i tried my best to get/obtain the noise. you can hear the wooosh woosh noise after 13 seconds...

Re: Compressor Surge
 

I heard it before 13 seconds too. :D

Re: Compressor Surge
 

^^lol...yeah i guess. but is this the 'infamous' pressurized air going into the turbo instead of going to the bov?!!

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Sounds more like flutter to me. Like others have said, would be hard to get surge at idle.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Especially using a turbo small enough to use the stock intake.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

I found a pretty good video on Youtube of what compressor surge is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nCj6Spwl1CU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nCj6Spwl1CU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>&hd=1

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Yours is just BOV flutter, it happens after you let off the gas, so it can't be compressor surge. BOV flutter is normal and should happen when there isn't a ton of air to blow off.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

maybe u should stop modding dsm's, doesnt seem to be ur forte

Re: Compressor Surge
 

hey rocket, how bout you shut up! hes asking for help, not a flaming!

Re: Compressor Surge
 

the 1g blowoff valve is amazing! sounds like your oil feed line is messed up.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

So just for the record, the fluttering noise in this video is not compressor surge?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZUbo_mNDZM&hd=1


Reason I ask is because my 14b setup was making that exact same noise as the one in this video (I have a crushed to maximum 1g bov) and I wanted to make sure that the noise I was hearing was not surge.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

That half sounds like what my starion was doing before I switched the vac line set up on my bov. I know my sound was alot more turkey gobble like and was a result of my bov not cracking open. Now with my two line vac setup on my bov its just solid woosh. (HKS Racing BOV)

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Real compressor surge happens during spoolup/high boost, not when you let off of the gas. The surge noise in that video is caused by the BOV not letting all the air out in 1 smooth blow. Too tight of a BOV opening and closing over and over might not be the best thing for the turbo, if the air is actually backing up that far, but it isn't real compressor surge and the kind that ported/anit-surge compressor covers are for. People call this noise BOV surge/flutter or "internet surge" because most people on the internet don't know what real compressor surge actually is.

Compressor surge happens when the turbo is flowing A LOT of air and the motor can't actually ingest all that air. A turbo makes boost inside the compressor housing, it isn't like a roots blower/positive displacement blower that works by stacking air in the intake manifold. When air starts stacking up on a turbo car and gets stacked all the way back to the compressor housing, then surge happens. The stacked air starts stopping the spinning compressor wheel or trys to turn it backwards. When you try to stop a compressor wheel going 80,000RPMs, bad things happen.

Compressor surge is common on 2.0l motors with the 61mm turbos. The 2.0l spools the turbo to high boost levels too fast and makes more air than the motor can take in. You can try to get rid of surge by going to a larger exhaust housing/wheel, to make the turbo spool up slower. You can get bigger cams, bigger intake manifold, port the head, to try to be able to take in more air. You can goto a bigger displacement motor that can take in more air each stroke.

A ported shroud/anti-surge cover has passage ways for the backing up air to come back out the front of compressor housing and into your intake pipe to try to avoid reverse flow pressure waves from causing surge.

Basically you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you spool a big turbo too fast you get surge.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

So what your saying is, that the people running the 14b's are having bov problems that causes the bov to either not open all the way or not at all, and the air is then stacking on your throttle plate and backing up into the turbo causing a "surge like" symptom, but is really not related to the turbo at all, instead is related to their bov/bpv. Makes sense. Stop crushing your bov on a 14b turbo you cant even really push that much pressure with a 14b to need that.

Re: Compressor Surge
 

Goatblower: Thank you for the proper definition of compressor surge, how about a proper definition for the symptoms I am describing? does BOV surge work? anyone?

This happens, so we have to have established terminology.

And in case anyone is wondering, when the BOV flutters, it does shorten the life of the turbo, I have several examples myself :(