Roll Bar/Cage
 

My current setup "should" be able to go quite a bit quicker then 11.49. I really don't think I'd enjoy driving all the way to one of these tracks, just to get kicked out right away.

So I've been contemplating putting in a 5-point Roll Bar (with swing out)which should apparently allow me to go as fast as 10.00 according to the 2008 Rulebook I have, and also on this link:
http://www.nhra.com/contacts/tech_faq.html

I went shopping around online, and all the pre-made kits appear to all be 8-point cages. I honestly do not see myself going any faster than 10.00, and the less bars/pipes I have to put in the interior, the better. Does anyone know of any pre-made 5-point kits? Does anyone know any good local places that could install this, or even just make one if there are no premade kits? I'd more then likely just go with a mild steel setup.

On other question regarding swingouts. Can swingouts only "swing", or is it legal to have them actually be completely removable and still be legal? That way I could just have it removed all the time for regular driving, and then just install it when I go to the track.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

As far as I know, a properly installed swingout can be fully removed, and put in for track purposes, as it was on joshs's stealth. I just didn't opt for them.

Why not just purchase the main hoop bend, and then some straight piping? Also, don't forget you need the 6x6 plates to weld to the car floor. Primo Performance did my cage, but I also had gotten a pre-fabbed kit from S+W racecars.

-A. Swift

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Where can I purchase just the main hoop bend? All the DSM specific ones I've found have 2 extra legs coming off them to meet 8-point criteria which I don't need/want.

How is the fitment of your pre-fabbed kit? I really would like mine to hug the interior of the car as much as possible to keep it's noticablitily and interference to a minnimum.

I understand the need for 6x6 plates, but I also understand they do NOT need to be welded.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

IHRA used to require a 6-point cage at 11.49 versus the 5-point for NHRA, but I don't know if they changed it in the last few years and CFR switched from IHRA to NHRA. You could just not weld in those extra 2 legs, most the kits I see require welding of those on. I don't think they are for any rules, just for chassis stiffening, since the next step up in rules requires a full cage with halo. A full cage does use those 2 points, and you could convert to a full cage, but you can also run smaller diameter piping when doing a full cage versus a roll bar to save weight.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

So would a 6 point cage be just the same as the 5 point, but with a side bar on the passenger side as well? I guess all I want is to be able to run in the 10's at the tracks, but no competitions, just for fun. Who's guide would be the best to follow? I was going off NHRA but apparently there are others. What should I be going off of to make sure I'm not going to get booted.

I could simply just not weld those other 2 legs, but I'd rather just not have them at all. Simply put, for me the less piping in the car the better.


I'd also like to retain as much of the interior as I can. Meaning I'd still like the back seats to be there. Anyone have any pics of anyone with a cage and still has an interior?

And again, anyone recommend any good local shops that could do this, and or bend their own cage for my car so it would fit better then these cookie cutter ones?

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Don't weld those 2 bars to the main hoop then.

Yea, a 6-point is just with a side bar for the passenger side.

Richard has done some nice cages in full interior cars. http://user1358701.sites.myregisteredsite.com/id5.html

One problem with the rules though, if enforced, is that you are supposed to have a full roll cage at 135mph or faster. 135mph for an automatic, slicked, transbraked, perfectly geared, tubed old V8 might be in the 9s. While for most manual tranny imports it's in the 10s-11s.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

criags old cage in his talon was a pre bent one it fit great I just put it in for him. It was a 8pt cage. he got it at his work and we do have a mitsu account there to get a good discount on parts.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Cages ruin an otherwise nice street car.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Yep don't forget about the trap speed, I don't know if you'd ever dip into the 9's but the trap speed is a big factor to think about.

I'd also check out mean street, I'd guess they'd be as cheap if not cheaper than a pre bent cage. They quoted me 800ish for an 8pt in moly and TNT quoted me 1ksih for an 8pt in moly.

Do you plan on running at only rock falls? At cedar from my experience they're pretty lenient on the rules and I'd feel pretty safe saying you wouldn't need a cage.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

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Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

From what I've seen on the websites that sell them, they looked like they were already welded on. If they aren't already welded on, then that's perfect.

For the most part, my car should be putting down numbers similar to a GT35R powered car. I plan to be running right around 30psi on E85. In your opinion, do you think I will be pushing the 135 mark?

Noted, thanks

How lenient? My setup "should" be able to get me into the 10's, though I'm sure with my inexperience it won't happen the first year.

Any pics? I'd love to hear a price quote on it.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Very possible. Your setup is better than my wife's she goes 132mph at that boost level in winter street trim.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Well then I think I may just get an 8-point, but only install it as a 5-point. Then if/when I do break 135 and am getting harrassed for it, I'll have the rest of the pieces that I need to make it an 8.

Also, is your wifes full weight? That may come into account as my car is still very much full weight (p/s, a/c, full interior, stereo, power everything, sunroof). The only weight reduction done on the car is the front bumper is removed, the cruise control is removed, emissions removed, and CF Hood.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

just pm craig and ask him for a price on it. he had it in 2 days at his store.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

You need a 10 point at 135mph.

Her's isn't full wieght, but it's probably not too much lighter than yours. It's doesn't have A/C or ABS, and cruise was just removed but it has P/S, almost full leather interior, stereo, power windows, power seat belts, sunroof, stock hood. She was on the heavy ass stock wheels and snow tires, which added 50-60lbs over her 16" Rota's with summer tires.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Last time I raced my bike there, another kid was running his R1 in the 10s all day in jeans and sneakers, you're supposed to have full leathers and a teather anything 120+ and 10.99 or quicker. Another guy I talked to said he ran a 9 second car down there with just a lap belt and the tech guys just laughed at him because it was still a stock suspension car scooting around all over the track.

I also think anything 135+ needs a 10pt cage, not just an 8pt.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

I see. So then what is the purpose of an 8pt cage? Just added protection over a 5/6pt, but you're still limited to the same times/speeds as a 5/6pt?

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Hey, were those prices you quoted only for installation, meaning you brought in a pre-made kit you already bought? Or was that for them to custom make it AND install it?

TnT is just minutes from my house, so I may have to give them a ring. That Mean Street isn't all that far either. Thanks for the recommendations

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

I was looking at 8pts because it wouldn't take much more to make it into a 10pt if I ever went that fast. Plus it seems like it would add some rigidity to the chassis. I don't have a back seat anyways so it wouldn't interfere with that.

Mean street quoted me "An 8 point chromeoly roll bar will cost you $800.00 installed (parts & labor)." TNT was the same way that they custom build the cage to your car so it includes the installation and and the actual cage in the price. I'd personally take it to mean street as he's done some cages in some fast cars and seems to have really good prices.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

I think I'll look into both of them. TnT is damn near next door to me and I've gone there a lot for parts. Never even thought about them doing cages. Looking at their site, they show that they've done some work for Brent Rau. If their work is good enough for him, I think it may just be good enough for me.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

I went to Rock Falls for a test n tune once last summer, and there was a guy in a Stealth there running 10.20's with no cage, and they didn't say anything to him.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

hmmm... that almost makes me want to wait until I do get booted...

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Id wait and see what times you put down. You might pull a Steve Hill and only run 12s. :D

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

LOL! Poor Steve! :D

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

What was your best time at the track? ;D

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My friend with his turbo gtp got kicked off 3 times this year cause he was running faster than 11.50 with no rollbar or whatever you need to run that fast.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

I'd go to the track first, then do the cage once you get kicked out. Rockfalls is very lienent on their rules on sport compact days. I put in the full certified cage for my safety, piece of mind, and the power the car made. I only exceeded the 135mph rating once (tad over 136, so not by much), but on that pass I was sideways for a good chunk of the first part of the track. Once I tech'd at rf's and brainerd the first time, they remembered the car and didn't even blink.

John still has the bender in his garage and can probably bend you up a hoop/bars to fit. I know he still has chrome moly as well. Remember that 4130 chrome moly needs to be tig welded, which is much more labor intensive and time consuming.

My next tba project will probably need a 6 point as well, but it will not be a drag car, and that is a good 5 years down the road before it will require one. Full Cages ruin street cars, rollbars are hardly noticeable when probably installed/fitted.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Yeah I hear you.

Here is my dilema. I would really like to wait to do something like this until I do get booted. But... my car is really only out and about maybe 6-7 months out of the year before it's thrown into storage for the winter. When it's nice out, I like to be able to enjoy it. So now, while it's in storage, is an ideal time to get any of these bigger things done, rather then doing it in the summer when I could be enjoying it.

That's my dilema. But right now I am leaning towards just waiting until I do get kicked off because it is a fairly permanent mod. And I think I oughta just wait until I know I absolutely need it.

Josh, did you guys build the one for your stealth with that bender? It was real nice. I'm really leaning towards getting one built, rather then a bolt in kit, because I think a custom bent one would be able to fit a lot smoother/cleaner, and be able to be closer to exactly what I want.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

14 something :) Making maybe 200whp, never dynoing and being mostly stock. Never went to the track with the 20g.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Mine fit qell for me, but the main hoop had to be a bit forward because of how clsoe to the steering wheel i sit. I went in a few different times for jesse to measure me and figure out where the doorbar and hoop and harness bars all went.

-A. Swift

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

My Main hoop was bent with there bender. I got the hoop and the straight bars and welded it in myself. John even borrowed me his old tubing notcher.

A 6 Pt with swing outs would be nice in a street car. I really like how safe I feel in my car just driving around.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

RF is getting a lot tougher these days, every year they are getting worse.
But its up to you, If i had your setup I would put the cage in, you should be passing 11.49 all day maybe 3-4 passes till u hit it.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

They yelled at Jet for running 12.0s a few years ago.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

PM for pricing on a main hoop if you want one. I have 1 5/8" .083 chrome moly or 1 3/4" .083 chrome moly and I might have some 1 3/4 .125 mild steel.

The 1 3/4" pipe either mild steel or chrome moly is used for your 5/6 point roll bars. The kits they sell are normally called 8 points because they include the "d" bars which are only used for the 8 point roll cage, you can install them but they are not need to be legal for NHRA/IHRA.

And the 1 5/8" either mild steel or chrome moly is used for the 8 point roll cage, the cage encloses the driver where the roll bar does not.

And welding chrome moly for NHRA you need to use a TIG welder on any chrome moly or chrome moly mild steel joint, and you should use ER70s-2 welding rod, and DO NOT stress relieve the welds. You can still use a MIG welder for welding the 6 x 6 plates to the chassis but for the plate to the pipe you need to TIG.

~John

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Yep, I ran four 12.0x's and they came and talked to me three times. I finally told him the goal of my day there was to get booted! I never did quite make it that day, ran a 12.009 though.

Brandon, just go to Iowa and don't worry about a cage. I was running mid 11's down there and they never said a thing and I don't have a cage in. MUCH better traction than RF too.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Yeah, that was built with that bender and dies we have still.

John, do you have pictures of Jesse's 6 point rollbar? I know that sucker fit REALLY nice. Everytime John does a cage, he gets it tighter and tighter fitting. Plus, with a few measurements, the main hoop, cross bar, and side bars can be fitted easily to your size (if you had a buddy welding it in, construction would be easy. For some reason, I thought you had a friend that welded).

Anywho, safety equipment is really nice to have, gives you a piece of mind when traveling at high rates of speed, and stiffens the chassis.

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

Sorry for a little thread jack here... How much change in the chassis stiffness is noticed between a 4pt and 6pt?

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

I noticed a BIG difference once my setup was installed..stiff yes, but also feels safe, and can corner a bit better too.

-A. Swift

Re: Roll Bar/Cage
 

I will dig up some pics and post them later tonight. A 6 point vs a 4 point harness bar, there would be a little difference as long as you had the door bars installed/welded in.

~John