People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

So recently I have been attending UTI in IL and the discussion of E85 has come up a couple of times and these instructors and kids are all fucking idiots. Everybody says "this or that" about it cause that is what they've heard but nobody has any solid facts. Me and my friend have repeatedly told them that you dont have to change out your WHOLE fuel system with these "special" fuel pumps that cost 1million dollars and "special" injectors with "special" seals.. We've told them countless times that you only need to change your injectors and pump to provide more fuel and you will also need a new fuel filter cause E85 will clean out your tank. And of course the editional tuning to provide the extra 30%.

What I need from you guys is ANY hard facts of long term use, dyno proven graph's for more power or anything you guys can come up with of HARD evidence that you dont need all this shit.

Hell, I even told my instructor about how I was able to up my boost and make more power with E85 and he said, "Well once you put it on a dyno and prove it let me know." And of course I have dyno'd my car and have made close to 100hp more to the wheels with it and trap 16mph higher. After I told him that he said that I should be teaching the class... All these kids just stare at me like I'm crazy whenever I talk about it EVEN WITH THE DSM GUYS at the school..

So help me and my friend out and give us some hard evidence!!!

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

E85 does corrode aluminum and deteriorates rubber. Why? Because of the alcohol in it. Thats why OEMs use stainless hard fuel lines and other such things. But I don't think we'd see the effects of corrosion in a short period of time.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Countless people have used E85 on their DSMs without any major stuff, for a long time now.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

The longest story of using e85 is in a fox body mustang that has used it for over 7 years, no corrosion yet.

My car went from 239hp/high 12s to 294hp/high11s.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

my cousin went to UTI in IL and he tells me alot of the DSM guys have no idea what they are doing to their DSMs. And yes, ALOT (99.9%) of the people out there have no fucking clue that E85 is not good for their cars. We are the 1% that actually knows that E85 is dangerous for a car if it does not have the correct applications to have it.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

The answers you seek and already know to be true are simple and effective
-alcohol absorbs more heat than gasoline. Cooler intake charge = more power
-alcohol has a higher octane than gasoline. Higher octane = more power
-make sure it is clear: dumping it in does not produce these results, it MUST be tuned for the new fuel. 28-30% fuel increase but still tuning to around 12:1 AFR on a gasoline calibrated wideband. More timing. More boost. Cooler intake charge. Cooler cyl temps. Cooler EGT's. It all adds up to more power.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Jim (TalonEvo) on here has been running E85 since who knows when in his Evo IX with results that are nothing short of spectacular. Just search for E85 on here and see what you come up with.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Yeah I'll be searching on this forum and others I just want as many guys as I can to back us up to show these kids there idiots.

Keep it coming guys! Dyno graphs would be awsome too.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Want dyno results? No this is not E85, but how about a shot of denatured alcohol on top of good'ol BP 92 octane. Boost: 25-> 29psi.
timing: 9->16deg.
power: 318whp -> 358whp.
torque: 300wtq -> 348wtq.

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo8/IMG_7477.sized.jpg
more graphs detailing boost, AFR, etc:
http://www.scheides.com/gallery/evo8?page=18

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Thank you! Now just keep them coming. I wish I could get mine but I left it at home..

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Different turbos so the comparisons aren't apples to apples, but I used to run 21psi on the street with 92 octane max making about 350whp and now run 30psi daily and make 582 at 32psi on E85, no knock. The horsepower comparisons are no good, but the boost level is.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Yeah I saw your dyno sheet on the dyno thread. Pretty damn impressive! My friend will be paypaling you tonight for the pipe. I'll shoot you a pm when he does.

Here's a good link on a corvette using E85 with good results:
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_08...t_results.html

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Same here, I used to run at 20psi on pump making ~250whp, now running 28psi and making about 400whp on the same dyno.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Those are pretty much the same results I had with the same psi. Although I'm not quite at the 400 mark.

Another link on the evo forums:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=360346

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

LOL this pretty much says it all:

http://images.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp...conversion.jpg

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

HAHA. Now if I show some of these kids this thread there gonna think you actually put a cob of corn in the damn tank.. Thanks ass! lol

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Then there is the greater quenstion on whether or not E85 requires more 'input' (farm fuel, fertilizer, processing, etc) than it returns in 'savings' at the pump.

The (very simple) math says no. There isn't a lot in this world that has a higher energy density than refined crude oil fuels.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

It isn't worth arguing with the instructors at UTI 99 percent of the time. Been there, done that.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

I gained about 80hp just by switching with my old 50 trim setup. Was making 280hp at ~20psi on pump, knocking like crazy. Switched to E85 and made 366 at ~25psi with NO knock. Both done at LSE. My dyno graphs are on here if you search.

Like Scheides said, dumping it in won't net you all this power. You must change your tune accordingly to take advantage of it, and that is when you will see the power gains.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

On the same setup I made 358awhp on pump at 21psi and I made 452 awhp at 28psi on E85.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Dig around on EvoM or Talk/Tuners, you will find a lot I am sure. You should just show your professors. If you have your old tune files, load up the old one and run premium. When you run out of that switch the file back and switch it to E85. May have problems demonstrating long term effects.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Alright I got plenty of people saying they make more power with it but now how about long term use? With corrosion and stuff like that? I have been searching around and most have used it for years without any ill effects. How long have you guys been running it and have you run into any problems?

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

E85 isn't much more corrosive than E10 fuel, which all cars have to be capable of handling. And of course they try to overbuild anything that would cause fuel to leak (or so you'd hope), so it doesn't really corrode much at all.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

i think the best thing you can argue is the fact that alot of people get ethanol mixed up with methanol

methanol being highly corrosive.

also there is around 10-15 % ethonal in normal gas, and there has been debates for a while about raising the ethanol content of regular gas to as high as 50%

Since 1977 the government made mandatory to blend 20% of ethanol (E20) with gasoline


as somone stated before the bigger injectors and fuel pump is to account for the added 30% usage


you also need some kind of tuner, for one to account for the 30% and also to account for the different burning caracteristics of e-85.

e-85 burns more efficiantly and cleaner.

another thing to note is lean / rich mixtures of either fuel. stoic (ideal) afr's for gas is 14.7 and for e-85 is around 9


as well if you look at octane ratings, the highest you can normaly get at a pump is 93, thus limiting boost or compression depending on application.

where e-85 is normaly around 105-110 helping prevent detonation at higher boost levels or higher compression levels

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

My neon runs fine on E85 without any modifications. I fill up with it about 25 percent of the time. It isn't even any slower than on regular gas.

My ECU is just that 1337!

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

A Neon isn't a performance car, you could probably fill it up with moose piss and it would run the same.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Just have your classmates look here: http://www.dynomaxdynotourblog.com/

Most of them are on E-85

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

I'm raising the bullshit flag on that one. It is LESS efficient, and I doubt it is any cleaner. Maybe your car smells like popcorn, but still, it puts out emissions just the same as gasoline.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

What does OPEC stand for?

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

google it! http://www.opec.org/

;)

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

E85, which is 85 percent ethanol, emits less smog-producing pollutants than gasoline, but provides fewer miles per gallon, costs more, and is hard to find outside the Midwest.

e-85 also burns faster, hotter and produces more enegry per charge that gasoline.

the only downside is that you need 30% more.


if you take 2 cars with the exact same setup only one runs e-85 tuned for it, and the other runs gasoline. the car running e-85 will produce more power but will use 30% more.


dollors per mile are about the same e85 being slighly lower, but the e85 makes more power at the same settings, but it allows for more boost or compression

so emissions are better, hence cleaner.
as fore efficiency it depends on what your arguing

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

just did some quick math, overall, and this depends on where you get your fuel specificaly.

e85 costs 11% more than gas to travel the same distance

but this depends on your tuning and on the price difference between e85 and gasoline.

there is an average of 20% difference acrost minnesota

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

E85 has a higher octane, allowing to add in more timing and boost before seeing knock. Therefor you can run leaner.

Just look at Englishracing.net That says enough :)

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

The only reason E85 is 'cheaper' is a $1.25/gallon tax subsidy.

The money still comes out of your pocket.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

That may be true but you really need to watch your EGT's. You can just as easily melt stuff with E85 as you can with gas.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

Whoops; wrong!

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ely-on-ethanol

E85 is one of the biggest scams this country has ever fallen for. It does nothing good for the environment or economy. Also, please keep in mind that 1 gallon of gasoline/diesel is needed to make 1.3 gallons of ethanol (according to Time magazine as of this past summer; I linked to the article elsewhere on this board).

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

I don't use it for environmental reasons. I use it because it performs well, and doesn't kill O2 sensors like leaded did.

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

And it's cheap. :D

Re: People are IDIOTS! - E85
 

E85 does burn a bit cleaner than straight gasoline BUT it takes a lot of energy and outputs a lot of pollutants to create E85 and that's the part of the process that people point their fingers at.

Of course E85 is also govt subsidized so we are all paying fot it whether you buy E85 or not. Thank you Hughes! ;-)

Bottom line is I would still buy the stuff if it coast the same as 92 octane fuel.

Evo 30k miles 2yrs, Talon almost 4yrs.

I made 291hp on 92 octane, I made a best of 377hp on e85. It allowed me to raise the boost 6psi, add more timing, and i guess run a little leaner than pump gas. You can find all my graphs under the screen name TalonEvo or check all the success stories here http://www.evomn.net/forums/viewforu...1ae8a6e8776036