I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

I am thinking about changing my 2g GSX to E85, however, when I mentioned this to my dad he said no way will it make more power than even just pump 92. I know that on some systems with supporting equipment it can make a few more hp’s then even C16 (all depending on the efficiency of the set up).

So I guess this is what I am asking… I need proof (dyno charts or anything else) that shows E85 makes more power than even just simple pump 92 and any supporting information as to why it works. Also why it may work on my 2g but not his C6 Corvette.

Finally I need any tips from people as too what I need to set my car up for E85. Right now my car is mostly stock but does have a 16g on it, an exhaust and blow off valve, just simple stuff. I bought 550 cc injectors for it, but should I go bigger to run E85? Like 880’s? I know some 2g’s need a fuel pressure regulator when switching to E85 and some don’t, what do people recommend? Also I was thinking about tuning on just an SAFC, will this be ok? And do I need a FMIC right away or not? I am not looking to make a lot of power and be the fastest by any means, I just want my car to be a little more fun and eventually make in between 250 to 300.

Any suggestions and information you guys can give would be great.

Thanks!

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

I had what I thought was phantom knock the entire time I owned my car. Made 285HP on pump 92, knocking like crazy. I tried the race gas at Bobby and Steve's, it didn't help at all.

I went E85 and made 366 on a half assed tune at nearly the same boost level (~23-25psi), with zero knock. The complete lack of knock is what I believe made the huge difference. On 92 I was almost always seeing 40 counts.

Here's some charts. Don't mind the shitty HP curve, it was a shitty tune we did just before the dyno day, had some issues. And that shit tune still did better then the 92 tune that was actually done at a shop.

Before:
http://www.dsmstyle.com/photopost/data/513/dyno_285.jpg

After:
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...8-07_small.jpg

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Im not sure it actually makes more power. E85 is more knock retardent and allows you to push your setup harder. Its not a mystery fuel that instantly ups your power

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Two things that you can do with E85 to make more power than with 92:
-more timing
-more boost

The car needs first to be tuned to E85 (get some big injectors!), and that new tune will be able to run more boost and more timing, yielding more power.

A good example is Jim's Evo9 (TalonFiero). I think he made 290whp@24psi (peak) on 92 octane with ebay exhaust & MBC, and a tune from shane. Then he put in a walbro 255 fuel pump, 1000cc injectors, and a panel filter, and a new tune from shane... and made 350whp@27psi (peak) at our dyno day last year.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

It doesn't add power, it just allows you to run way more boost and timing due to it's cooling properties and 104 octane rating, which makes power.

It won't work as well on a C6 as our cars since there's no boost to turn up. However, if you can change the timing curves and lean it out a bit over stock, you'd see power gains as well. Corvettes are pretty good stock, where our cars are severely undertuned from the factory.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

I understand it’s not the be-all-end-all of fuels by any means. I am just trying to understand why it works for some and it does not for other set ups. I know you need to change things like bigger injectors, but I also know that with a smaller turbo, like mine, it may be more efficient and cost effective (I know you burn through it faster) to run E85 than 111 or C16 which in the end will just mess up my O2 sensors and clog my exhaust unless I make even more changes.

I am just trying to find a way to make more power while not having to run an AEM or even just DSMlink, something on an SAFC if possible that I will not have to switch tunes back and forth all the time.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

So if I ran it I could just max out my boost then? And I would not need to worry about knocking, or would a good tune just take care of that?

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

E85 is basically running race fuel for cheap. The big "con" with e85 is the higher fuel requirement, sometimes over 30% more fuel than when running 92 octane. you will also have to run e85 at all times, no switching back and forth between e85 and 92 unless you have the ability to drain your tank and reload a 92 octane tune into the ecu.

You won't be able to "max out" your boost. You will be able to run a fair amount of more psi of boost pressure due to E85 higher cooling and octane rating but you can't just run the "max". You can't just pour it in and turn up your MBC, you will most definitely need a tune.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

I wouldnt say max out, since you currently have no timing control, however you will be able to greatly increase it. The best thing to do is get a logger going and keep turning up the boost/messing with the fuel, until you have the boost you want with zero knock. Oh and keep an eye out for good deals on dsmlink. I was able to get a legit copy of like with an eprom for $400 for a guy in the cities... you just have to watch the boards.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

You would probably need DSMLink or AEM to run E85 properly, a good tuning tool is required for a good tune.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

That is the biggest dyno graph i have seen ever.

Your answer lady is big brown.
239hp to 299.
13sec 1/4 to 11sec 1/4.

You will need injectors, 1 255, some kind of tuning control to take full advantage of E85.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Normally, you don't need an aftermarket FPR on any DSM, unless you have 2 fuel pumps. Tuning around a little bit of fuel pump overrun is usually not a problem.

E85 can make a little more power without doing much at all on a decent boost turbo car with upping the boos tor adding in a bunch of timing. On a turbo car, the E85 helps cool the intake charge temps like crazy, so you might get a small gain just from that, kinda like if you were running an air-to-water intercooler with ice in it. I usually see a 10whp gain on Evos when I convert them to E85 without turning up the boost tor doing much with timing. But we always turn the boost up and timing up a little from there and get a 40-50+whp gain.

E85 is not going to be of much advantage to a normal naturally aspirated car like a Corvette. You might be able to make a tiny big more power, but it isn't worth it. On a very high compression all-motor setup it is useful. It's of most use boost cars because of the octane and the cooling effect.

2G DSMs with 16Gs and the stock side mount intercooler and no timing control often start knocking above 14psi. E85 would help with cooling/knock, but it the stock SMIC is still somewhat of a flow restriction.

If you drive your car in the winter, you might need 2 different E85 tunes. The ethanol content in "E85" is much lower in the winter.

I would try some 780cc injectors and the SAFC. But you would be limited to E85. 780cc and an SAFC wouldn't work so hot on pump gas.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Is that Hal's graph? I thought I saw that on NABR.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Can't even see said graph.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

This is what I've thought as well, but reading the pump at the Holiday at 252 and 694 in Brooklyn Center, it clearly states on a sticker (not less than 85% ethanol content). I was meaning to give them a call later but didn't get around to it. I know my car immediately ran a bit smoother after I put that in. I suppose effectively going from 1600cc injectors to 1150's or so has that affect. :beer:

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Well thanks everyone. I'm still not sure what I will end up doing. I would like to make semi-good power (for me at least) with out dumping loads of money into the car. Maybe I will tune it with what I have now and see what I make, since the car has some how never been on a dyno before, and go from there...

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

The e85 winter blend definitely doesn't have as high of concentration as the summer blend... No matter what those stupid stickers say.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

The sticker is totally wrong, I fill up at a few Holidays that say that but the fuel composition sensor shows 69-70%

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Merkzu, would you be able to get your hands on a fuel composition sensor that shows the octane level of pump 92 by chance? That would be interesting to see what is actually coming out, and from what places.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Measuring octane is a lot different than measure the percent of alcohol in fuel. I have measured the ethannol content in E85 and normal pump gas using a pop bottle.

DSMs actually have a sensor on them for measuring octane, it's called a knock sensor. :)

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Lol, well how do you measure normal pump using a pop bottle?

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

The ethanol would rather mix with water than gasoline, so you can put water and gas in a bottle, shake it up and measure how much the water level increased. A lot of 92 has around 10% ethanol

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

421, that sensor detects percentage of ethanol, not octane. In Minnesota that's 10% for all normal pump gas if I'm not mistaken.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

correction... the non-oxygenated is supposed to be ethanol free... but who knows if it really is.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

The non-oxy should be ethanol free and it usually more knock/detonation prone on boosted cars because of it.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

That and most places don't move it enough to keep its octane rating that high. just sits there.

This thread is interesting because I am going to be switching pretty soon to E85.

I am hoping I can find a flex fuel sensor for my car so I can run whatever I want (premium or E85). However they are kind of expensive.

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

Does anyone know how much 111 is these days? Like at Bobbie and Steve's?

Re: I need proof E85 works…and tips for setting it up.
 

That stuff is crap, not worth the money. I used to get 100 octane unleaded from a self-service pump in Dayton, which was pretty good at $4.25/gallon back in the day. Other than that, C16 is your best option.